Propaganda - Wishful Thinking 2nd June

[obs]

And then there's the 5.1 SACD .

[omar]

I remember reading somewhere that an actual analogue synth was used on Dream Within A Dream. Have to remember that the Horn & Lipspn team were studio wizards and they would've used every studio trick under the sun .

[FiveTenFifteen]

On the differences between the 'Analogue' and 'Digital' versions of 'Duel' and 'p:Machinery' - I have the remastered two-disc edition and here is what the curator of the ZTT re-issues, Ian Peel, noted in the accompanying booklet on this topic;

"'Duel' and 'p:Machinery' differed on the analogue and digital editions too. But only for those with an eye for the finer detail... They're not different versions, or different recordings. They are the same length, but they're different mixes. Some elements come to the fore in one mix that are hidden in the other. And vice versa. On 'Duel' the differences are most noticeable on the stereo mix on the percussion and the reverb on the vocals. On 'p:Machinery' you'll hear a clap of thunder after the line "another truth, installed by the machine" at around the 1:16 mark* on the digital version. But its not there on the analogue version."

* Actually, on listening, it's the 1 minute 06 seconds mark... and yes, once its pointed out, there is a clear difference.

[discoginfo]

Ah yes I remember now that I read that when i bought the CD, but had forgotten it (looots of information has passed through this brain since!), thanks for reminding. So the curator has either compared the mixes, or there were notes in connection with the master tapes to that effect. I have to assume, then, that only the tracks that were added as extra tracks on CD 1 were differently mixed (10-15). I have updated my discog accordingly. Some question marks remain though. /JW

[FiveTenFifteen]

I'm not sure how thorough the comparisons or notes that may, or may not, exist in the ZTT archive are - on the same double-disc remaster of 'A Secret Wish', the mix of 'p:Machinery' titled 'Goodnight 32' is as far as my ears can tell in fact the 7" remix that surfaced in late 1985 on the 'Reactivate' re-issue of the single, labelled at that time as '(The Beta Wrap Around of) p:Machinery'. I blogged about this here:
http://www.versioncrazy.com/2012/04/29/ ... as21-1985/

But who knows... if is a similar case of different levels of reverb or the like, it may well be a different mix after all...

I'd heartily agree with earlier comments about the forthcoming 'Wishful Thinking' re-issue - as much as it is welcome to see more unreleased mixes surfacing, it is true that they do not sit alongside the 'Wishful Thinking' album and arguably should not be there, especially while tracks such as the 'Sorry For Laughing' Unapologetic remix which do date from the same session are not included - even if the inclusion of the latter would be a repeat from the recent 'ASW' -disc remaster.

As for the 'M: The Secret Tapes Of Dr Mabuse' CD - other than the opening version of 'Disziplin' and 'Suende' for historical reasons, that is a really rather pointless release, especially the two terribly dated 'remixes' of Mabuse and the 'Sylvian's Machine' track that sounds like some badly recorded attempt at 'p:Machinery' on a Casio home keyboard of the time...

[discoginfo]

I believe it is/was Paul Morley who consistently re-titled and re-labelled tracks and mixes in absurdum. It was the "style" of ZTT at the time. So, we may never know whether 'Goodnight 32' is the same as the single remix.

[discoginfo]

I got the Cd today, the booklet is quite informative, I haven't read all yet, will have to scrutinize it later. All tracks are mastered from the original master tapes, except "p:Machinery (The Beta Wraparound)" which was compiled from several different vinyl sources to make the sound as good as possible (they say much better sound than on the Japanese 1994 SECRET WISH CD). /JW

[FiveTenFifteen]

Release appears to have been knocked back a week, grrrrrrr... No copies to be found in a few of the London record shops I visited...

[moni]

[quote][i]Originally posted by FiveTenFifteen[/i]
<br>Release appears to have been knocked back a week, grrrrrrr... No copies to be found in a few of the London record shops I visited...
[/quote]
It was in every store in Glasgow on Monday and my copy was sent out by amazon on Friday.

[moni]

Got it today it sounds great[:)]

[FiveTenFifteen]

Sorry for the false call on release date - yep, it's out all right - eventually found a copy in Fopp - they had a grand total of one copy ordered! I guess other stores had their deliveries loused up by jubilee madness or some such...

[soundstory]

[quote][i]Originally posted by discoginfo[/i]
<br>Yes, that's what I'm asking. I do have the deluxe 2-CD, but the extra tracks on CD 1 are called "the analogue versions". I don't know how certain the compiler(s) were, if they had access to different master tapes that stated the tracks were different. But they are the same duration, and to me sound similar. It may be that they were remixed only slightly. /JW
[/quote]

Essentially, the difference is that the "analouge" versions are from the original album & cassette.

When CD's came in, Steve Lipson saw a chance to remix a few of tracks, hence I guess you could them the Digital versions.

The original Vinyl version first appeared on CD in 1994 when Warners bought the ZTT back catalogue.

The differences between Duel or p;Machinery are very slight, if you compare Dream Within A Dream, the differences are many.

For me personally, the "analogue" versions will always be my first choices, as they were the tracks as I originally heard them.

Hope that helps !

[discoginfo]

Thanks. I have now added info for the 6 bonus tracks in my discog. The booklet, while informative, was confusing with conflicting information, I believe the bonus tracks changed place after the liner notes were written because the references to "bonus track 2" etc don't always match. /JW
http://www.discog.info/propaganda.html

[Parrothead]

Thanks for all the info in this thread. I have the 1985 LP (Can) ISL-1048 and the ZTT118CD (US) with mislabeled "Jewel". I ordered the 25th anniversary set and figure it should be a combination of both previous versions. I have Outside World in my collection, am still on the fence with Wishful Thinking, but will probably end up buying a copy.

[obs]

[i]> I have the 1985 LP (Can) ISL-1048[/i]

But there's more than one [:0]. But the difference is pretty much just the back cover. One of them (I'm guessing the original release) does not list the tracks on the back cover. The Island artwork on the record labels are different, too. Musically, they're the same [:)].


Have you heard Wishful Thinking before? There's a couple of nice mixes on there. It's definitely worth getting, if you can spare $15 or so.