New Wave Outpost Forum

So the GAOB reissue is finally available. While my involvement in this project consisted only of getting the ball rolling, I will carefully comment on the final results. First off, I can say that I'm very surprised at Alex Ogg, (known as Bad Penny on this forum), for the claim that is appearing all over various websites, including CR: "And all tracks have been digitally re-mastered from source tapes." This is clearly not the case. As with the previous CD release, all of the tracks originally released on the Happy Birthday label are clearly vinyl transfers, though these are "new" vinyl transfers, and you can decide for yourself on the quality. While I did remaster these tracks over a year ago, when my involvement with the label ended the remasters went on my iPod, which is where they will stay. While I can appreciate that these tapes may not have been available, NEVER claim the use of tapes when they were not used. On the plus side, there is a radio session included that has never been officially released. I do suggest fans purchase this release, if only for the radio session.

The politics behind Politics[:D]

Thanks for your honesty in the matter...appreciate that.[:)]

"Keepin the '80s alive!"

I have just been made aware of this.

I was under the impression that masters were being used. However, it appears that was not the case. I therefore apologise to anyone who feels they have been misled.

How does this compare to the previous cd? I believe it was on Vinyl Japan....

Don't think anyone - perhaps Rubellan apart - will be disappointed with the sound quality here.

OK, since you encouraged my further comments. Not only are most of the tracks from vinyl, complete with nasty auto pop removal artifacts, but the whole CD has been brickwalled in volume. How nice that you've misled everyone, including Iain (CR's chairman, who had been misled by Alex about the remastering source until I brought it to his attention.) I wouldn't doubt it was to prevent my further involvement, as you know I had the tracks remastered a year before, so claiming the false use of non-existent master tapes ensured Iain not seek my services on this project I originated. Congrats Alex, you have yet another substandard product with your name on it.

Inaccurate in almost every regard.

You didn’t originate this project. Of that I have categoric proof.

CR’s head specifically asked me if I would be willing to work with you on this project, when, after your grandstanding ‘retirement’ (and you never were very honest about the reasons behind that, were you? You retired on quality criteria, didn’t you? Not because you’d just received a note complaining about your lack of professionalism and discretion?) you contacted him to see if you could still be involved in this project. I was also approached to work on The Mood re-release with you (similarly, post-flounce). In both cases I declined. There was no sleight of hand here. I made it clear to him that I wouldn’t continue to work on any projects in which you were engaged in any capacity. It really is as simple as that.

Sub-standard product? The band are delighted with it. I’ve heard no negative comments apart from your own – once again motivated entirely by personal bitterness. In Iain’s own words (and I quote directly) it sounds “very good”. He also complimented me on staying through the project – which was not at all straightforward for facts that I won’t bore you with – for over three years to see it through to completion. I’m very pleased with it.

It sounds great!

So if the whole thing was done without my initiation, why do I have a credit on the booklet if I contributed nothing? The original email thread says it all.

I'm sure Iain would love to know of your juvenile antics on this board. Talk to me about lack of professionalism. And as I stated to Iain, I was willing to finish up any projects that I had initiated, but had no intention of further suggestions considering I found you typically business minded; Pretty product, crap sound quality = Success! Deadlines and money is all you thought of. In the end it's your loss. There wasn't a single complaint about any of my projects on a quality standpoint, but I expect you'll continue to be involved in the more than occasional shit sound quality CD, with lousy claims of "The band liked it". Really, because I have the horror stories from Eyeless in Gaza of how they had no choice but to approve crap masters on previous issues, since rejections resulted in no improvements. Keep posting your attempted justifications because there is never an excuse for substandard sound quality for the sake of saving cash. Do it right or don't do it at all. Looks like everyone are horrified at the recent Belouis Some CD. What are your justifications for that?

So if the whole thing was done without my initiation, why do I have a credit on the booklet if I contributed nothing? The original email thread says it all.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world not to credit you on the booklet, Rubellan. Given that I don’t hold you in the highest regard. However, it would have been petty and wrong. You were the person that provided the connection to the band itself. So it was entirely at my insistence that you were credited. As I said previously, I can provide categoric proof to you – or anyone else – that you didn’t initiate this project. But you did contribute to it, and that was acknowledged.

I'm sure Iain would love to know of your juvenile antics on this board. Talk to me about lack of professionalism.

I have in the past provided Iain with a direct link to this board. I will gladly do so again if you wish. I can also provide him with a link to you stating that he was a ‘bozo’. Would you like me to do that?

And as I stated to Iain, I was willing to finish up any projects that I had initiated, but had no intention of further suggestions considering I found you typically business minded; Pretty product, crap sound quality = Success!

Nothing to do with me, I’m afraid. I have argued long and hard on quality issues. In the end you have to do what you can, and move on if your conscience demands it.

Deadlines and money is all you thought of.

Demonstrably not true. Evidence? I have worked at half-price (even on a fairly grim pay scale) to get projects I believe in off the ground. I have personally financed others. Money has never been my motivation.

In the end it's your loss. There wasn't a single complaint about any of my projects on a quality standpoint.

Yes, there were. As you well know. Should I put the major concern discussed up on here with a link? On the whole, as an aside, your work was excellent. I have no problem in acknowledging that. Unfortunately, it was not backed up any kind of professionalism or good grace.

But I expect you'll continue to be involved in the more than occasional shit sound quality CD, with lousy claims of "The band liked it".

I think you’ll find that won’t be the case. It’s tiresome having to justify problems that are not of your making. I’m moving on.

Really, because I have the horror stories from Eyeless in Gaza of how they had no choice but to approve crap masters on previous issues, since rejections resulted in no improvements.

I had no involvement with previous EIG reissues aside from the recent one I did with them (All Under The Leaves). The band stated they were pleased with my work. I do know, however, that you managed to fall out with them. Well done. Consistency is a good trait.

Keep posting your attempted justifications because there is never an excuse for substandard sound quality for the sake of saving cash.

Never my decision – and your lack of understanding on this point underscores everything you write. I always advocate fighting for the best that can be achieved, both in sound and presentation. Unfortunately the paymasters concerned won’t always countenance that. I guess that you could pin that on those who are a cog in the wheel. But you’ve got the wrong cog. And very probably the wrong wheel.

Do it right or don't do it at all. Looks like everyone are horrified at the recent Belouis Some CD. What are your justifications for that?

That’s really quite funny. I had nothing whatsoever to do with the project. Wholly dispiriting to read that thread though. Anyway, as I don’t represent Cherry Red in any shape or form, please don’t try to pin it on me.

As a final thought, I had NO falling out with EIG. Everything went very well, and I have wonderful emails from both of them to prove it. Talk to me about false claims...

Ring any bells?

"I just received word from Iain that Martyn has rejected my work on half of his 2 on 1 solo CD."

That's a direct quote!

Since you are clearly uninformed about the rejection, read it verbatim from Martyn himself. The improvements I made were not what Martyn was looking for on that particular project, and I completely respected his decision. Ironically, the most rewarding message I received regarding all of the projects I worked on:

Hi Scott. Finally ! - we have both listened thru, many many times (VERY closely!!!!!!) to all the masters. You are right - Drumming /Pale Hands is the remastering job where the change is most significant, by a mile.

I am personally really pleased with this one -it's like having an old friend back, or hearing it for the first time since we originally mixed and mastered the thing. Excellent job!

I called Iain McNay today and told him that we approve all of the remastered cd versions, EXCEPT for the ''Letters Written'' album, where I have decided to stick with the master that Cherry Red have already put on cd. The 'original' Cherry Red master suits the intimacy of the music better , I feel - it has a much 'smaller' sound picture. The Return Of The Quiet ''however, I was very pleased with -I've instructed Iain to go ahead and use your version, as its much more 'lively' and suits the music very well!

Once again, we both thank you for all your time and efforts! Well done -nice job done!

All the best,
Martyn Bates & Peter Becker

"The improvements I made were not what Martyn was looking for on that particular project."

Appreciate the confirmation.