Question about the costs of reissuing 80s albums

[ModernEnglish]

I'm not in the record biz, so I have no idea how this works. Maybe you do?

If a small label wanted to reissue an old 80s album, what kind of money are we talking about? I imagine there's a fee for licensing, but how much are we talking about? Also, on top of the licensing, do they also get a cut of cd sales? How much? How many cds usually need to be produced on a first printing? I'm sure I'm missing lots of other things as well. Does it matter if it is a reissue or a remaster? Does it matter if there are bonus tracks?

Does anyone know the steps and what it takes to get something reissued?

[pinkyblue82]

I think Scott (Rubellan) has investigated this so he may have some upcoming info for you.

[Rubellan]

The information I have is from various sources. I have heard in the U.S. that licensing a single album can be around $10,000, but bulk deals are available if licensing more than one album. This is why some indie labels, such as wounded bird, will reissue several albums from a specific label. This information may be long out of date.

I have heard from Cherry Red a few years ago that it cost them about $2000 to license a single album. UK markets are smaller so it appears licensing isn't quite as expensive there.

Now here's the catch. Part of the reason some of these labels choose to remaster from vinyl is because the cost mentioned above is simply for the license. The tape baking/restoration/transfer is an additional cost to the licenser..., unless they choose to remaster from an existing source, i.e. a previously mastered CD or vinyl record.

Also, in the UK the standard requirement is to have a batch of 1000 CD's produced, though I've heard that in the U.S. it may need to be as much as 5000, though I'm sure that depends on the deal.

I don't know the specifics about how much of a cut the license owner gets from the CD's that the third party sells.

I tried to contact Universal some months back, as I wanted to inquire about the Siouxsie and the Banshees catalog. Being that most of the remasters are crap, and unavailable from a U.S. branch of the label, I wanted to find out a cost to bring out brand new remasters in the U.S. market. I wanted to request a cost for the licensing of each album, as well as a flat and unaltered brand new transfer of the masters that I could work from. I got no response from Universal, and don't know how else to find out this info.

[ModernEnglish]

Thanks for the informative post, Rubellan. Much appreciated!

After searching through old threads, it looks like Rubellan, Jason², and Spaz have had some experience with this subject. It's nice that they've shared what they know. From what I've read, it just doesn't seem like there's any way to break even or make money on doing remasters correctly. Instead it seems you have to cut corners and release dozens of titles to stay afloat. That is a sad fact to realize.

I think a good idea would be to setup fan-based remastering projects for these artists and albums that many of us are wanting. Although this would be a huge undertaking, at least the tracklists and audio remastering work would be appropriate.

[bigwavedave]

Interesting topic. I always wonder how many of our favorite new wave remasters actually turn a profit.

Rubellan mentioned that 5000 copies is a likely target for US reissue pressings. I contacted Universal Hip-O several years ago about reissuing an old A&M title (early 80s Pacific Northwest act Johnny and the Distractions), and I believe that's about the number they told me they'd want to press to make it worth the company's efforts. Of course, they then informed me that they wouldn't be followup up on my reissue request, but at least they replied!

[discoginfo]

I have been trying to make record companies interested in reissuing albums on CD since the 90s, by phone, letter, fax, and from 1996 by email, and so far very few even replied. Now it's cheaper because they can chose to make it a download album only. But that's not what fans of 70s/80s music want. We want real CDs, with front cover, booklet etc. I also recently sent lists of albums that would be appropriate for CD to Cherry Red etc, since they ask fans to send in suggestions. But so far they did not reply either. Here is my list, a bit outdated maybe, it was from last year, but nevertheless. NOTE: SOME ARE ON CD ALREDAY, BUT WITHOUT ANY EXTRA TRACKS, THAT'S WHY I INCLUDE THEM IN THIS LIST: * 10CC & solo (ANIMALYMPICS , GIRLS, TEN OUT OF 10, FROOTY ROOTIES, WINDOWS IN THE JUNGLE)

* After the Fire (first LP unreleased version with Tony Mansfield as producer)

* Army of Lovers (First LP with extra tracks, for example, or a Box)

* Art of Noise (IN VISIBLE SILENCE, IN NO SENSE? NONSENSE! )

* Associates (Rare Tracks)

* B! Machine (excellent synth from late 90s)

* Captain Sensible (singles and rare 1982-84)

* DATA (3 LPs)

* Dramatis (Gary Numan's backing band)

* Flash & the Pan (80s LPs)

* Rupert Hine & Thinkman

* Human League (rare tracks)

* Japan: Singles, 12" mixes

* Korgis

* Laid Back

* Landscape (singles A+B, 12" mixes, James Burgess solo LP)

* Lipps, Inc.

* M & Robin Scott

* Mari Wilson (LP 1983)

* "Produced by Tony Mansfield" (he was a great producer!)

* Matt Bianco (80s LPs)

* Giorgio Moroder projects/productions (various LPs and singles from his late 70s disco era)

* Naked Eyes (2 LPs early 80s)

* New Musik (Best Of, warp)

* Nick Straker Band

* Rockets (French space-disco late 70s & early 80s)

* Secret Service (Swedish 80s, very popular in continental Europe)

* Pete Shelley (collection)

* Space (French space-disco late 70s & early 80s)

* David Sylvian (singles and collaborations)

* Taco

* Tears for fears (singles)

* Telex

* Twice a Man (Swedish synth 80s, sings in English)

* Vicious Pink

* Visage (first LP, singles A+B, 12" mixes)

* YMO (Yellow Magic Orchestra) (singles etc)

Maybe we can start new threads/topics, for each Remaster Fan Project. /JW

[Surly]

Scott and Bigwavedave are correct on this subject; I used to work for both Universal and WB/Rhino, so I'm familiar with the subject. The minimums can be about 5,000, but I've known Rhino and maybe even Sony to do 3,000, but as stated above, it's only going to make sense for you if you have the money to invest in doing a number of titles at once. If you do a reissue through Rhino, it's cheaper to do just an album - if you add bonus tracks, it becomes a "compilation" and the minimums go up. That's why Wounded Bird did a 2-fer of Kissing The Pink's "Naked" and the self-titled 5-song EP - even though there were some duplicated tracks, a 2-fer did not count as a compilation, so it was cheaper than them just doing "Naked" and only adding the non-LP tracks from the EP. Weird, but true. Sony, on the other hand, will "give away the store," so that's why Wounded's Sony reissues are all rich with bonus tracks, as there is no premium for them to be included.

However, what we've seen is that a lot of these labels, particularly Wounded Bird, rely on consumer suggestions to release CDs. I can't take full credit for all of these, but I know I've helped get stuff out by suggesting such things as One To One, Kissing The Pink (those are my LPs that they scanned for the artwork), Limited Warranty, and Until December (they wrote back to me on that one; asking for info on the singles). So, it really does help in some cases to send suggestions. Again, I know I'm not the only one to suggest these titles to them. The Wounded Bird guy can be detached and dismissive in replies, but again, I know for a fact that he releases based on suggestions from both consumers and the labels. Each label has a sales rep pitching reissues to these guys.

To help filter suggestions:

Wounded Bird - reissues product from Sony and Warner/Rhino.
Friday Music - they've done Warner/Rhino and BMG (now Sony)
Renaissance - mostly Sony, but some Universal
Collector's Choice - lots of Universal and EMI. They now own American Beat, which has done a lot of Universal stuff.

So, try to focus reissue suggestions based on the labels that these reissue companies tend to work with.

One other thing to note: if you are thinking of doing reissues, consider selling them online only. Selling to stores means you'll have to pay a distribution fee as part of the label deal, along with paying to have a distributor handle your product.

"Words like conviction can turn into a sentence"

[gnj1958]

I have no problem having albums available as downloads. Sure I'd rather have a good CD but if it's a choice of download or nothing then I'll take the download. I just want the files to be sourced from tapes not vinyl. Having said that there are very few albums I'm waiting for anymore. Pretty much it's Silent Running's first album. Everything else I either have or could live without

[ApolloZero]

Yeah, I too have helped and suggested things to various reissue labels over the years. Send in your idea. Some things I can take credit for...
I even got a personal letter from Rhino saying that Ron and Russell Mael of Sparks wanted to thank me personally for suggesting to Rhino releasing their back catalogue.. they did a 2 cd compilation back in the '90s.
I know through Peter Godwin who I just met up with this year, that I had something to do with his Oglio release as I campaigned for that. I sent long letter and alot of my suggestions came out, like Men Without Hats.. which is funny because Ivan of Men Without Hats hates the head of Oglio now lol.
I "campaigned" to get Rachel Sweet's last two Columbia lps on cd and it finally happened on Collectibles, which did some great remastering.
Wounded Bird wanted to do but told me that at the time licensing was not available at the time.
That is another point, sometime things are not able to be licensed for years or expensive because of contract terms.. Remember when Wounded Bird released Holly & The Italians two Virgin albums? Wounded Bird paid alot for the licensing because they like her and believed the music should be out on cd. so obviously they didnt make any money on that.
So sometimes there is more involved than just wishing and wanting without understanding the issues that are there.
Write them all with your suggestions. it can happen.
Just be something reasonable.. and suggest, suggest suggest.. it doesn't hurt.

PS
Something else you can thank me for is the 12" mixes on the first Book of Love album, that was my suggestion and I knew the rep for Warner and he told and it happened. LOL

[ApolloZero]

Discoginfo... some comments on your list...

I also can't believe that all the back catalogue of TELEX cds is out of print.. that is weird. I would def release those. There could be some reason for that.

* Human League (rare tracks)
Hasnt that already happened. I have the cd of bsides etc.. is that what you are talking about or?

I could see Oglio releasing Lipp's Inc catalogue.. that would work for them.

I think someone is reissuing the first Matt Bianco album.. i thought i saw that somewhere.

[ApolloZero]

I could see Oglio releasing Lipp's Inc catalogue.. that would work for them.

I meant Wounded Bird.. though it's the one of the two guys who did Oglio / One Way.

[discoginfo]

[quote][i]Originally posted by ApolloZero[/i]
<br>Discoginfo... some comments on your list...

* Human League (rare tracks)
Hasnt that already happened. I have the cd of bsides etc.. is that what you are talking about or?

I know about that "rarities" CD from 2005, but there are more rare tracks. /JW http://www.discog.info/human-league.html

[chris74]

@Discoginfo:

Thank you! I'll kiss your feet for having proposed The Art Of Noise to be rereleased on the Cherry Red Label. I have the original albums but I'd love to have a new release with bonus tracks.The new best of album "Influence" is not really balanced. Too many weird songs/sketches and not enough b-sides etc.