New Order "Substance" Expanded 4CD Set

[omar]

Out on Nov. 10th through Rhino/Warner Records.

Tracklist:

[CD1]
1. Ceremony (Version 2) [2019 Remaster]
2. Everythings Gone Green (2019 Remaster)
3. Temptation '87 (2023 Remaster)
4. Blue Monday (2020 Remaster)
5. Confusion '87 (2023 Remaster)
6. Thieves Like Us (2020 Remaster)
7. The Perfect Kiss (2022 Remaster)
8. Sub-Culture (John Robie Remix) [Substance Edit] [2023 Remaster]
9. Shellshock (Substance Edit) [2023 Remaster]
10. State Of The Nation (2023 Remaster)
11. Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Remaster]
12. True Faith (2023 Digital Master)

[CD2]
1. In A Lonely Place (2019 Remaster)
2. Procession (2015 Remaster)
3. Cries And Whispers (2019 Remaster)
4. Hurt (Substance Edit) [2023 Remaster]
5. The Beach (2020 Remaster)
6. Confusion (Instrumental) [2020 Remaster]
7. Lonesome Tonight (2020 Remaster)
8. Murder (2020 Remaster)
9. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) [2020 Remaster]
10. The Kiss Of Death (2022 Remaster)
11. Shame Of The Nation (2023 Remaster)
12. 1963 (2023 Digital Master)

[CD3]
1. Ceremony (Version 1) [2019 Remaster]
2. Mesh (2019 Remaster)
3. Temptation (2018 Remaster)
4. Confusion (2020 Remaster)
5. Perfect Pit (2022 Remaster)
6. Dub-Vulture (John Robie Remix) [2022 Remaster]
7. Shellcock (2022 Remaster)
8. Bizarre Dub Triangle (Shep Pettibone Remix)
9. True Dub (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Remaster]
10. Confusion Dub '87 (2023 Remaster)
11. True Faith (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Digital Master]

[CD4]
1. Ceremony (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
2. Everythings Gone Green (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
3. Temptation (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
4. Blue Monday (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
5. Confusion (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
6. Thieves Like Us (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
7. The Perfect Kiss (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
8. Sub-Culture (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
9. Shellshock (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
10. State Of The Nation (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
11. Bizarre Love Triangle (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
12. True Faith (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)

[moni]

It's annoying that they haven't included the full length versions of Sub-Culture,Shellshock and Hurt and i would imagine that it will be the edit of The Perfect Kiss on here as well even more so when you consider those tracks were all released digitally in their full length versions in the last couple of years. I would have preferred also more remixes on disc 4 instead of that live stuff.

[ZippY]

It's annoying that they haven't included the full length versions of Sub-Culture,Shellshock and Hurt and i would imagine that it will be the edit of The Perfect Kiss on here as well even more so when you consider those tracks were all released digitally in their full length versions in the last couple of years. I would have preferred also more remixes on disc 4 instead of that live stuff.

For instance: the other 2 versions from the Confusion 12 inch could have been easily added instead of 'live stuff'.

Totally agree. The live disc is out of place and a big mistake here. I would have thought that 4 CD's were enough to include the un-edited versions of Perfect Kiss, Sub Culture , Shellshock and Hurt. Not gonna buy this.

[dlgladwin]

Here's how I might do it:

Disc One - 1981-1984
01 Ceremony (Version 2) 4:24
02 In a Lonely Place 6:16
03 Everything's Gone Green 5:31
04 Procession 4:28
05 Cries and Whispers 3:26
06 Mesh 3:01
07 Temptation (Original 12") 8:50
08 Hurt (Original 12") 8:06
09 Blue Monday 7:29
10 Confusion (Original 12") 8:08
11 Confused Beats 6:27
12 Thieves Like Us 6:37
13 Lonesome Tonight 5:12

Disc Two - 1985-1990
01 The Perfect Kiss (Original 12") 8:45
02 Sub-culture (Original 12") 7:24
03 Shellshock (Original 12") 9:40
04 State of the Nation 6:32
05 Bizarre Love Triangle 6:45
06 True Faith 5:55
07 1963 5:36
08 Touched by the Hand of God 7:04
09 Fine Time (Silk Mix) 6:15
10 Round & Round (Stephen Hague 12" Mix) 6:50
11 Run 2 (Extended Version) 5:32
12 World in Motion 4:32

Disc Three - Versions
01 Ceremony (Version 1) 4:33
02 Temptation (Original 7") 5:15
03 Confusion Rough Mix 8:02
04 Murder 3:56
05 Sub-culture (Record Mirror Remix) 7:00
06 Shame of the Nation 7:55
07 True Faith (Remix) 9:02
08 Blue Monday 1988 7:09
09 Round & Round (Ben Grosse 12" Mix) 6:51
10 Best and Marsh 4:32
11 Run 2 3:41
12 MTO 3:49
13 World in Motion (Subbuteo Mix) 5:09

Disc Four - Dubstance
01 The Beach 7:19
02 Confused Instrumental 7:39
03 Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) 6:57
04 Kiss of Death 7:03
05 Perfect Pit 1:23
06 Dub-Vulture 7:53
07 Shellcock 7:32
08 Bizarre Dub Triangle 7:00
09 True Dub 10:38
10 Touched by the Hand of Dub 5:33
11 Fine Line 4:43
12 Subbuteo Dub 4:15

[ZippY]

Here's how I might do it:

Disc One - 1981-1984
01 Ceremony (Version 2) 4:24
02 In a Lonely Place 6:16
03 Everything's Gone Green 5:31
04 Procession 4:28
05 Cries and Whispers 3:26
06 Mesh 3:01
07 Temptation (Original 12") 8:50
08 Hurt (Original 12") 8:06
09 Blue Monday 7:29
10 Confusion (Original 12") 8:08
11 Confused Beats 6:27
12 Thieves Like Us 6:37
13 Lonesome Tonight 5:12

Disc Two - 1985-1990
01 The Perfect Kiss (Original 12") 8:45
02 Sub-culture (Original 12") 7:24
03 Shellshock (Original 12") 9:40
04 State of the Nation 6:32
05 Bizarre Love Triangle 6:45
06 True Faith 5:55
07 1963 5:36
08 Touched by the Hand of God 7:04
09 Fine Time (Silk Mix) 6:15
10 Round & Round (Stephen Hague 12" Mix) 6:50
11 Run 2 (Extended Version) 5:32
12 World in Motion 4:32

Disc Three - Versions
01 Ceremony (Version 1) 4:33
02 Temptation (Original 7") 5:15
03 Confusion Rough Mix 8:02
04 Murder 3:56
05 Sub-culture (Record Mirror Remix) 7:00
06 Shame of the Nation 7:55
07 True Faith (Remix) 9:02
08 Blue Monday 1988 7:09
09 Round & Round (Ben Grosse 12" Mix) 6:51
10 Best and Marsh 4:32
11 Run 2 3:41
12 MTO 3:49
13 World in Motion (Subbuteo Mix) 5:09

Disc Four - Dubstance
01 The Beach 7:19
02 Confused Instrumental 7:39
03 Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) 6:57
04 Kiss of Death 7:03
05 Perfect Pit 1:23
06 Dub-Vulture 7:53
07 Shellcock 7:32
08 Bizarre Dub Triangle 7:00
09 True Dub 10:38
10 Touched by the Hand of Dub 5:33
11 Fine Line 4:43
12 Subbuteo Dub 4:15

Now THAT'S the one I'm gonna buy! Cheers!

[Glenn]

As per the discussion on SDE, 'Perfect Pit' is on CD3 though missed in the tracklisting that was released.

[obs]

Well, the good news is that it's not bundled with overpriced vinyl .

[Fred Taghon]

More good news, is that I've bought a few tracks from the recent New Order digital download singles ("Perfect Kiss", "Sub-culture" and "Shellshock") and, if those are any indication, the mastering is pretty well done. Some compression and, definitely overall louder than than the original U.S. "Substance" CD, but certainly not brickwalled. I think they sound great!

One thing I did notice, looking at the pre-order digital download on Qobuz... Track times are listed, and it looks like the full length "Perfect Kiss" will be used, but "Sub-Culture" and "Shellshock" are still the 1987 edited versions. And it also appears that "Bizarre Love Triangle" will be edited which is a bit shocking.

[moni]

More good news, is that I've bought a few tracks from the recent New Order digital download singles ("Perfect Kiss", "Sub-culture" and "Shellshock") and, if those are any indication, the mastering is pretty well done. Some compression and, definitely overall louder than than the original U.S. "Substance" CD, but certainly not brickwalled. I think they sound great!

One thing I did notice, looking at the pre-order digital download on Qobuz... Track times are listed, and it looks like the full length "Perfect Kiss" will be used, but "Sub-Culture" and "Shellshock" are still the 1987 edited versions. And it also appears that "Bizarre Love Triangle" will be edited which is a bit shocking.

I can't understand how they can edit Bizarre Love Triangle by nearly 50 seconds unless they fade the track out which will sound really stupid. I also counted out the time for that first disc and it clocks in at 71 minutes a CD can hold 79 minutes so there was no need for those edits.

[jaybag]

Now that's really interesting - I can't find a 5:55 version of Bizarre Love Triangle anywhere. I'm looking at the Qobuz tracklisting - interesting that both that track and the one right after it (True Faith) clock in at exactly 5:55. I wonder if maybe they put True Faith in there twice by mistake? If so hopefully that gets rectified prior to the release date.

One great thing about buying from Qobuz - when there's a mistake on a release you can usually download the corrected version. This happened with the recent Wham! singles box, where disc 1 track 5 was initially incorrect (they'd repeated a different track). Those that ordered the physical media had to have it mailed but Qobuz just fixed the file on the site. Love that site.

[Fred Taghon]

Now that's really interesting - I can't find a 5:55 version of Bizarre Love Triangle anywhere. I'm looking at the Qobuz tracklisting - interesting that both that track and the one right after it (True Faith) clock in at exactly 5:55. I wonder if maybe they put True Faith in there twice by mistake? If so hopefully that gets rectified prior to the release date.

One great thing about buying from Qobuz - when there's a mistake on a release you can usually download the corrected version. This happened with the recent Wham! singles box, where disc 1 track 5 was initially incorrect (they'd repeated a different track). Those that ordered the physical media had to have it mailed but Qobuz just fixed the file on the site. Love that site.

Oh good eyes! I did not notice that, that would be logical explanation. Because why would they edit one of their most iconic songs on a long awaited reissue of their most iconic "album"? I hope you are correct!

I agree completely about Qobuz! Was so happy when they were made available to U.S. customers a couple years ago. Love the option to buy uncompressed formats. Still prefer CDs but will happily buy uncompressed downloads when there's no CD counterpart.

[Fred80s]

From Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/2885657 ... -Substance
The disc 4 live set was mastered from a cassette. And it sounds like it.

AloneWithStrangers's avatar
AloneWithStrangers Nov 10, 2023
The 21st Century Disease strikes: the mastering is horrible. Probably my favourite 'Best Of' of all time and they've created a messy noise of it. What a waste.

dominic_dancing's avatar
dominic_dancing Nov 10, 2023

Still waiting for mine to arrive. Can you describe what the issue is with the mastering?

AloneWithStrangers's avatar
AloneWithStrangers Nov 10, 2023
dominic_dancing: it's brickwalled to the extreme so everything is very loud across the frequency spectrum. For me, pretty much unlistenable for any more than a few minutes. It may sound fine on phone speakers but anywhere near decent kit will show up the flaws big time. Not saying that to be snobbish, just that I like to listen to music with good dynamics. And this isn't that: will stick with my original CD bought on the day of releaseand maybe do my own sympathetic revisiting of the eq,

dominic_dancing's avatar
dominic_dancing Nov 10, 2023
Thanks for that, it sounds a real shame. I’ve an original Factory CD too, so was looking forward to the additional content and True Faith with glitches fixed.

notepad27's avatar
notepad27 Nov 10, 2023
Edited 19 hours ago
Just got my 4CD copy today. I own an original 2xCD and original vinyl set, amongst the singles etc. This CD mastering is cut way too hot and I agree that it sounds like all the EQ settings are maxed. I don't like it, but it's not nearly as bad as the epic fail NIN reissue in the 2000s. I may return this and get my $40 back and just listen to the originals but, disc 4 sounds pretty good; the remixes I already have as originals. Terrible lost opportunity here. Why all this "remaster" when they almost always turn out worse than the original?

djsalvio's avatar
djsalvio Nov 10, 2023
Thank you for the information. I was about to buy it and had the feeling of this release being remastered worst.
I will stick to my original CD and vinyl pressings.

knifeyspoony23's avatar
knifeyspoony23 Nov 11, 2023
Sigh ... I was looking forward to having the b-sides only found on the original cassette release easily available but there's always a catch. I guess my already wonky sounding tapes get to live another day.

[Thefxc2]

My god a surprisingly big overlap between New Order fans and annoying audiophiles