New Wave Outpost Forum

One of the favorite things I read from the post-punk book, Rip It Up and Start Again, was the discussion about Magazine's fabulous "Shot by Both Sides" single. A revealing quote about Howard Devoto's perspective:

" 'Shot' captures the era's sense of dreadful polarization, and the vascillation of those caught in the cross-fire with the center ground disappearing beneath their feet."

It seems like the perfect fit for the post-punk ethos as a whole - the sincere promotion of the individual, not just in lyrics alone but new musical and narrative forms that these were woven into. This might explain a lot of my fondness for post-punk - not as some high-minded thing but almost something as simplistic as Ferris Bueller's disdain of "-isms". [;)] Another quote about post-punk in general from earlier in the book also fit's "Shot" to a T:

"They saw the demagogeury of overtly politicized groups...as far too literal and non-aesthetic, and regarded their soapbox sermonizing as either condescending to the listener or a pointless exercise in preaching to the converted."

I love this notion of disdain for both the collectivist Left and authoritarian Right. The individual over the "-ism"; levity, introspection and analysis over dogma and polarization. Cool! [:p]

It's funny you mention that song. In a lot of ways it became my theme song during my punk days.

While being a punk was liberating and gave a lot of us a sense of belonging we'd never had, it also became in some ways just like what we never belonged to.
Restrictive, uniform and controlling.
Was your hair right?
Your clothes?
Did you only listen to the "right" music?
Sneer at the right things?

While this wasn't the case with everyone involved, there was always a vocal minority looking to enforce these "rules."

Was this music "punk" enough?
Attitude correct?
Music too "slick?"

While it wasn't enough to ruin what I look back upon as one of the best times in my life, it was enough to annoy me.
I refused to wear the "uniform, I wore whatever I liked, some fit, some didn't.
I refused to stop liking music I had always liked, whether it was funk or country & western or metal.
I never died my hair or had tattoos.
I never spit on bands whther I liked them or not, nor did I indulge in mindless acts of nihilism (i.e. vandalism or theft.)

I got along fine with most people, but there were always a few that just had to make issues of some of these things, sometimes in aggressive ways.

The reason I embraced punk was that I'd never felt at home with the establishment; flower power was ok with me, but I never really felt part of that either.

Punk was the first and only social group I'd ever felt truly at home in.
Now at 54, there isn't any social group I really feel at home in anymore.

Now as then, in many ways I felt shot by both sides.
The writer is probably right; Howard may have felt that way too.

Edit:
A more recent example.
About 15 years ago, I was approached by the Democratic party in the city I lived in to become a precinct chairman.
I had gotten to the point in my life where I thought perhaps it was time to work within the system to effect some change.

I held this position for a couple of years, but what I learned of the political system at the grass roots level disgusted me.
It was the same shit I'd seen all my life; do exactly this, say exactly this, do not deviate from the script.
If you do, you're against us.
Don't try to mitigate any of our positions or policies.
And above all don't say what you truly think.
This applied to both parties as I got intimate glimpses of both.

I still recall a political meeting where I made the mistake of saying I had seen situations where unions were detrimental to the workers themselves.

Specifically I had worked in a manufacturing plant where the unions were so restrictive, so concerned with their wages and rights, that they literally closed the plant and put hundreds out of work.

I was privately told afterward to keep my views on unions to myself.
I quit on the spot.

[b]AMEN[/b] brutha!!! [8D][:p][8D][:p]


[i]...I didn't lose myself in the crowd[/i] - H. Devoto

Great post guys. As for the political side, I swear there has to be an opening for a viable third (moderate) party. After spending some time on political blog sites such as DailyKos, Redstate, and LGF, it's obvious there is no room for moderates in the current version of the Republican/Democratic party. They talk about moderates and middle-of-the-roaders with such disdain. Any disagreement with the current party line is the equivalent of treason in their eyes.

Edit: Oops, I may have taken this off topic a little. Sorry.


<font size="1">"I've been playing the joker and dumbass for too long here, out of pity for the intellectually challenged that frequent this site" -- Hutter</font>

[quote]Originally posted by Blir
[br]"They saw the demagogeury of overtly politicized groups...as far too literal and non-aesthetic, and regarded their soapbox sermonizing as either condescending to the listener or a pointless exercise in preaching to the converted."

I love this notion of disdain for both the collectivist Left and authoritarian Right. The individual over the "-ism"; levity, introspection and analysis over dogma and polarization. Cool! [:p][/quote]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Rokkr[/i]
<br>While being a punk was liberating and gave a lot of us a sense of belonging we'd never had, it also became in some ways just like what we never belonged to.
Restrictive, uniform and controlling.
Was your hair right?
Your clothes?
Did you only listen to the "right" music?
Sneer at the right things?[/quote]

These are pretty groovy summations of personal feelings in the midst of youthful class structures that easily reach far into adulthood. The notion of extremism has always bothered me as well which is why I floated among different cliques myself. If anybody had a problem with it, fuck 'em. It was just always more interesting to me that way. And a hell of a way to ferret out the real friends fom the fakers. To this day, I have a pretty varied group of people that I socialize with. It's just...healthier, I think. Growing up, my father worked for an airline and we traveled all the time. He thought it was important to instill a kind of objectivity in me by exposing me to different cultures and peoples. It was always second nature to me to consider other people's outlooks before passing judgement, if at all. There's nothing more comfortable than the middle ground if you ask me. I had some waver friends that called me a peace punk - I just wanted everybody to get along!

Anyway, I can't say I've recently discovered the meaning of any old song but just that I can definitely identify with you guys' opinions.

edit: God, I'm having such a New Wave moment right now. I think we have the makings of our own moderate political party - GUYS, LET'S DO IT! [:p] Seriously, this is what it was all about for me.....A wise man once told me, "Just because one thing is wrong, does'nt mean the exact opposite is right." Whoa. That statement rules. [;)]

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

Yes, this points up my greatest dislike nowadays: the polarization of America.
I'm really, really, really tired of people who think that anyone with opposing views just HAS to be wrong, stupid or evil.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground anymore and I hate it.
People seem to forget that almost all political notions boil down to opinions and deal with facts only tangentally.

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Seriously, this is what it was all about for me...
[/quote]
So then you're done with "Get rid of 'em"?! That's great Marv. You've finally seen the light. [}:)]

Now why have you all politicized my innocent little music thread?! [:I]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Seriously, this is what it was all about for me...
[/quote]
So then you're done with "Get rid of 'em"?![/quote]

I don't think so. Why on earth would I ever be done with that saying[?]

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

Song meanings/context recently discovered? Um... I think when Edwyn Collins was writing about ripping it up and starting again, he... wasn't actually talking about pieces of paper?

SomebodySomewhere, who only understood two words in this entire thread - "Ferris" and "Bueller."

It was many years before I realized that Grace Jones Pull Up to the Bumper wasn't about parking a car...[:I]

There are probably a lot of songs that I simply liked but never really listened to the lyrics or gave them any depth or innuendo. I know I've given a second look to a few tracks/artists after reading about them on the boards.

[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>It was many years before I realized that Grace Jones Pull Up to the Bumper wasn't about parking a car...[:I][/quote]What about "Nipple To The Bottle?" [;)]

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