New Wave Outpost Forum

Punk, post-punk, new wave is not the genre known for GUITAR GODS! However, there were a few phenomenal ones.

Need four for the Mt. Rushmore of punk, post-punk, new wave guitarists. Pretty sure I have the undeniable three. Who gets the fourth face?

Johnny Marr
John McGeoch
James Honeyman-Scott
?

Hmm not entirely convinced of this suggestion myself, but would we bother adding Warren Cuccurullo in here at all?


TM

Ricky Wilson.

[quote][i]Originally posted by q89747[/i]
<br>Ricky Wilson.
[/quote]
No doubt he was creative and got himself a real cool sound, but no one will ever consider him a great guitarist. The guy played guitar with two strings.

It's a tantalizing question as technical proficiency, longevity and the ability to create a signature sound and what are now instantly recognizable riffs are all factors for me.

Stevie Stevens, The Edge, Andy Summers come to mind.

[quote][i]Originally posted by TragicMagic[/i]
<br>Warren Cuccurullo
[/quote]
Yes, he had a very strong technical foundation and a heck of a guitar player's resume; but top 4 when it comes to new music guitarists? I really don't imagine many kids idolozing Warren and running out to learn how to play guitar because of him.

Mt. Rushmore implies founding fathers, influential. Mr. Cuccurullo would not fit in with that.

My "personal" Mt. Rushmore:
Johnny Marr
Stuart Adamson
Jaimie West-Oram
Dave Fielding

(that's today of course--six months from now...)

Who would I consider on a general Mt. Rushmore?

Will Sergeant
Paul Weller
Peter Buck
Robert Smith

Others I'm sure..

Ahh, Peter Buck and Andy Summers I can definitely see. Also Robert Smith. Weller? His strength is far more his songwriting than his guitar playing.

The Edge? Obviously the most famous and definitely a signature sound, but once again, how many players did he influence? The Edge was more of a follower than an innovator, being strongly influenced by Tom Verlaine (who had numerous followers).

Will Sergeant was another influenced by Verlaine. Sergeant is my favorite guitarist, I still try to play and sound like him, but no way would I put him on a Mt. Rushmore. He just isn't that good. He broke no new ground.

Stuart Adamson is an outrageously great guitarist. Definitely unsung, but not worthy to be in the same company as a Johnny Marr. And Dave Fielding is really nothing without Reg Smithies. They both needed that two guitar tandem thing in order to make great guitar music.

I guess, like so many discussions in this area it comes down to definitions. What does "great" guitarist mean? Technical virtuosity? Unique sound? Influence on later or contemporary musicians? NW wasn't usually about guitar technical prowess, so I suspect if that is the criterion the number of "worthys" are going to be pretty low: Andy Summers, Bill Nelson, Tom Verlaine, Johnny Marr, Perhaps Bob Mould, perhaps Brian Setzer (if their strain of rockabiliy would be counted in the "umbrella" version of NW) come to mind.

Mind you there are some guitarists who I was always very impressed with who weren't necessary "flash" lead players: I consider Stuart Adamson, Neil Clark, Peter Buck, Jeff Walls, Dave Gregory, James Honeyman-Scott, and Rob Buck to be among them.

Is it a unique sound? Dave Fielding (and agree with the need of the addition of Reg Smithies), Jaime West-Oram, The Edge (admire him or not, his use of harmonics really influenced a lot of people), Danial Ash, Robert Smith, Will Sergeant and others may not be Van Halen level technically good, but used their playing and effects to create something (relatively) new

These are always fun discussions, and we've had a number of them on the Outpost over the years. Always interesting, especially with guitarists and keyboardists, to hear the defintion of "great"[:)]

Ah, some fine guitarists mentioned there. But none of them are worthy of being on Mt. Rushmore...maybe Daniel Ash. He had a particular sound, technical ability, and influenced many. (Dave Navarro, for instance, always mentions Daniel Ash when talking of his influences and where would "Smells Like Teen Spirit" have come from without "No New Tale To Tell.")

Neil Clark -- whoa, forgot about him. I had a live video concert MTV broadcast years ago of The Commotions playing a venue in New York (The World?). I must have rewound that tape seven thousand times to see how Clark plays the intro to "Are You Ready To Be Heartbroken." No tab in those days, no youtube tutorials, just live performances to get a hint from. I am proud that I figured it out. It ain't easy, Clark is an extremely talented player.

And if we were going to allow Setzer in with his genre, this thread would end instantly. NO ONE is better than Brian Setzer. No guitarist mentioned here even comes close.

You know who is not worthy of Mt. Rushmore but is still a great one? Glenn Tilbrook. Clearly known as a phenomenal songwriter, but someone once linked a live version of "Another Nail In My Heart" and said watch Tillbrook on guitar. That song has a fantastic lead and all those years listening to that tune I never once thought about it actually being played by someone. Well, the live concert video shows Tillbrook ripping off that lead so effortlessly. Very difficult and melodic lead and he did it without even blinking.

Elliot Easton: The Cars
Peter Hook: New Order/Joy Division
Will Sargent: Echo and the Bunnymen
Andy Summers: The Police

[quote][i]Originally posted by Crocodiles[/i]
where would "Smells Like Teen Spirit" have come from without "No New Tale To Tell.")
[/quote]

Boston's "More Than A Feeling". It was a direct rip and Cobain has admitted as much.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Crocodiles[/i]
<br>
And if we were going to allow Setzer in with his genre, this thread would end instantly. NO ONE is better than Brian Setzer. No guitarist mentioned here even comes close.

[/quote]

So based on that, it sounds like technical prowess is the prime feature for your Rushmore. The only other name I could add to that may be Steve Stevens

[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br>So based on that, it sounds like technical prowess is the prime feature for your Rushmore.[/quote]Huh? I am EXCLUDING Setzer, so isn't it obvious that technical prowess is not the prime feature?

Anyway, Setzer was playing straight forward rock-a-billy. Sure it had more of a modern edge, but what he was doing was not "new music" at all. He realy can't be on the Mt. Rushmore of punk, post-punk, new wave guitarists.

The criteria for this Mt. Rushmore really is:
- fall into the punk, post-punk, new wave genre
- talent
- influence
- ground-breaking

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Crocodiles[/i]
where would "Smells Like Teen Spirit" have come from without "No New Tale To Tell.")
[/quote]

Boston's "More Than A Feeling". It was a direct rip and Cobain has admitted as much.
[/quote]Now that you mention it, I can totally hear it.

Gotta add Billy Zoom from X to the list of Rushmore candidates.

[i]"I was amazed when I had to actually sit down and learn 32 songs in two weeks. I learned a lot; my guitar playing improved a lot after I had to sit down and learn all of his parts. There's a part of me that's forever in his debt, from having my Billy Zoom guitar lessons. A lot of punk bands--a lot of any bands--don't have these kind of intelligent guitar parts. That guy is really good."[/i] -Dave Alvin on replacing Billy Zoom