Mel Gibson

[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by KYYX4ever[/i]
I think this age is so politically correct that everyone's POV is supposed to be heard and included. Everyone gets equal time. (unless their views are so hateful, weird, or inflammatory. That's a different story.) Do you know what I mean. It seems like the more controversial, the better. It kind of helps you stand out in the crowd.
[/quote]

I often wonder where it's written that every opinion is valid and should be spoken & when that idea started. To be honest - not every opinion needs to be, or should be spoken - because quite a few of them suck out loud & are just plain ridiculous, hurtful or misinformed.


(Of course, excluding yours KYYX! [;)])

[stella]

[quote][i]Originally posted by djcraig[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
<br>And about funding Hezbollah, I hate an unequal fight. Only when both sides are equally strong will diplomacy take over.
[/quote]

Right again, Stella!

I hate the way we won the Cold War against Russia by unfairly upping the military ante until they could no longer compete, damn us! I was looking forward to decades of more dissention and threats of mutually assured distruction from the Ruskies.

I miss the days when American kids had to do "duck and cover" exercises at school in a futile attempt at surviving a nuclear blast because we were on equal footing with the Commies.

Where have all the good times gone?

<img src="http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/35/250px-Nagasakibomb.jpg">

<a href= http://

<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/">DJ Craig</a>
[/quote]


But it would seem to have worked, we both still here.

[djcraig]

[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by djcraig[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
<br>And about funding Hezbollah, I hate an unequal fight. Only when both sides are equally strong will diplomacy take over.
[/quote]

Right again, Stella!

I hate the way we won the Cold War against Russia by unfairly upping the military ante until they could no longer compete, damn us! I was looking forward to decades of more dissention and threats of mutually assured distruction from the Ruskies.

I miss the days when American kids had to do "duck and cover" exercises at school in a futile attempt at surviving a nuclear blast because we were on equal footing with the Commies.

Where have all the good times gone?

<img src="http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/35/250px-Nagasakibomb.jpg">

<a href= http://

<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/">DJ Craig</a>
[/quote]


But it would seem to have worked, we both still here.
[/quote]

I can't believe I have to explain this. Staying on equal footing militarily in order to reach diplomacy (as you suggested) DIDN'T work! That's the point.

We won by getting an "unfair" advantage over our opponents. They crumbled because of it and I believe we're better off for it. The Cold War is over, The Berlin Wall came down.

Since you didn't get that from my previous message, let me help you out...

[i][b]Irony- definiton: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Dramatic irony lies in the audience's deeper perceptions of a coming fate, which contrast with a character's lack of knowledge about said fate.[/i][/b]

In answer to your previous question, "Is it against the law to be anti Semitic?" No, it's not. No more than it's against the law to be stupid. But that doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

<a href= http://

<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/">DJ Craig</a>

[hutter]

Stella...you're dumber than a bag of dicks.

[NuWaveRx]

Here I go, just after I get appointed a Mod--risking pissing everyone off, but.....

Lots of different points in this thread--and here's my 0.02 (or less)

1. It is Mad Mel's right to say as many idiotic things as he wishes. It's also his right to suffer the consequences (monetary, career-wise) for what he says.

2.Stella I gotta say I agree with Craig and Hutter about the "equal fight" argument. It just doesn't hold water. Would you have wished that Hitler or Stalin had gotten the Atom bomb the same time the U.S did? I fear in that situation we'd all be equal--piles of radioactive ash

3. That being said, I agree, the word "terrorist" has a very loose definition. My guess is, if the word existed, Sam Adams might have been called a "terrorist" for leading the Sons of Liberty into the Boston Tea Party. Our goverment has funded "terrorist" groups for nearly all of the 20th century (Check Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" for a well referenced text on this subject) in the Carribean, South America, and Asia.

4. Israel is receiving a lot of disapproval in the world at large for, as many see it, "killing a fly with a sledgehammer" (and killing a lot of innocents while doing it). They may well have had to react as they did, but this "it's the good guys (i.e. those we support) against the bad guys (i.e. those we don't)" argument is just too simplistic to be useful. For better or worse, the U.S. is the largest supporter (politically, economically, etc) of Israel on the world stage, and has been been since 1948. The fact that much of the Arab world sees this as fundimentially wrong and unfair goes to the heart of a lot of the problems we currently have in that section of the world. If the average U.S citizen can't even question that support without being labeled "anti-semetic", it hobbles us tremendously in figuring out how to improve things in the Middle-East. We ignore this question at our peril.

Sorry Mike--I'll keep my mouth shut in the future[:D]

[phillyidol]

How dare you! I'm offended![;)]

[birdmadgirl]

My favorite quote from j-school:
"Freedom of speech is freedom for the speech you hate."

Mel Gibson can say whatever he wants--but that doesn't mean he should! I agree with a lot of what Wolver posted above about celebrities needing to keep their yaps shut when it comes to racist and intolerant statements. I'll extend that to normal Joes like the rest of us, too.

Is that censorship? I don't think so. No one's saying you *can't* say whatever you want. I like to call it social responsibility. You might think it and you might really want to say it, but you don't because it's just not right.

And, yeah, I know the world doesn't operate this way. But it should! [;)]

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[Spectre General]

Here are some truths:

1. You reap what you sow, period. I firmly believe that each and every person is fully responsible for everything that they do or say, and with that responsibility comes the de facto acceptance of the consequences of said actions, whether they were forseen or intended or not.

2. Some people get a raw deal, and have to accept responsibility for, or suffer the consequences of things that are the result of OTHER'S actions or words. In fact, everyone will at least once in their life, I believe it's unnavoidable. What truly makes the measure of a man is how they will handle this situation (personally, I hate it when it happens, but what can you do?)

3. The problem with the world is that many people do not believe in #1, in many strata worldwide, people often hide behind their lawyers, guns, or money (Thanks Zevon) or ideologies to shirk responsibility and force #2 to occur. These people are worthless bloated cowards.

Another topic, but still a truth:

"Getting Offended" is a conscious choice that a person makes. Like it or not this is true. Someone could come up to me and say the most offensive thing imaginable, but yet it is still up to me to determine how I will respond, and belive it or not, it is possible to choose [i]NOT[/i] to be offended. This is called "tolerance." I don't know why more people don't realize this, but I suspect that "public opinion" may have a lot to do with it. If persons A, B, and C are offended by person X, and Person D knows this, person D is likely to forgo the decision making process about [i][b]WHY[/i][/b] to be offended or not, and make an entirely different self-serving choice about which person it would be more beneficial to agree with. Usually this choice results in person D agreeing with whichever opinion is supported by more people. This is called "being a sheep."

The moral of the story is think for yourself and take it like a man. Because one day *gasp* you will actually [i][b]have to.[/i][/b]

[Panorama]

[quote][i]Originally posted by phillyidol[/i]
<br>I think Mel is Fucked! Hollywood is run by jews. Good luck getting another movie mel! Maybe they will let you play a drunk? I swear in road warrior, I heard him call Humungus a dirty money lender.[/quote]I think Mel is close to being a billionaire. He financed The Passion of the Christ which made boatloads of money. I believe he also owns ICON pictures, so he's not hurting.

He should hire a full time driver, especially if he is going to drink and drive.

---------------------------
"Photography with a Vision"
http://www.cooganphoto.com

[Opera Prima]

I agree with most of what NuWaveRx said. It's sad to see how almost anyone who opposses Israel policy is automaticaly labeled as anti-semitic... for example, two correspondants in Israel were fired from their Spanish TV channels for being too critical with that country's government, and just a week ago, Israel's ambassador in Spain and some Jewish bussinessmen started saying my government is anti-semitic just because it condemned the killing of Lebanese civilians.
So it's seems to be OK if someone says that muslims are fanatics, but don't ever dare to say anything against the Jews or Israel... I think people should try and treat all parts equally.

Going back to the past and the Cold War... I'm not sure if the huge Russian threat to Americans was such... I just wish the US and the USSR hadn't fought for imposing their systems in the rest of the world, that did no good at all, only led to wars and the destruction of other countries (Korea, Vietnam and a long etc.)
Let's see what happens in a few years time when China becomes the new first power in the world... I hope history doesn't repeat.

IMHO, instead of funding the different factions in conflict I think the best way to end to all this violence would be disarming all of them.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Spectre General[/i]
Another topic, but still a truth:

"Getting Offended" is a conscious choice that a person makes. Like it or not this is true. Someone could come up to me and say the most offensive thing imaginable, but yet it is still up to me to determine how I will respond, and belive it or not, it is possible to choose [i]NOT[/i] to be offended. This is called "tolerance." I don't know why more people don't realize this, but I suspect that "public opinion" may have a lot to do with it. If persons A, B, and C are offended by person X, and Person D knows this, person D is likely to forgo the decision making process about [i][b]WHY[/i][/b] to be offended or not, and make an entirely different self-serving choice about which person it would be more beneficial to agree with. Usually this choice results in person D agreeing with whichever opinion is supported by more people. This is called "being a sheep."

The moral of the story is think for yourself and take it like a man. Because one day *gasp* you will actually [i][b]have to.[/i][/b]

[/quote]

Wow, this should be in the board FAQ. This could very well be the truest thing ever posted on this board (along w/ the U.S. are terrorists and water is wet). Nice post. [:)]

BTW, Opera Prima - you are correct on all points.

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[Opera Prima]

And following Spectre General's nice post, I would like to add that sadly there are too many sheep everywhere. Most people just watch the news and nod to everything they hear, it doesn't matter how impossible or ridiculous it is. It's a pity only a few people are critical with what they hear and think if things make sense or not.
For example, I heard on the news some passengers in the 9/11 flights made phone calls saying their planes had been hijacked, etc... and some months ago I read a piece of new saying that a new system was going to be installed in some airplanes of the most important flight companies so that people could use their mobiles in these planes (something that is not possible nowadays I understand).
So, if this is true, how could the passengers of those hijacked airplanes talk to anyone through their mobile phones?

[Spectre General]

I thought you would like it Motors.

And in response to Opera Prima, I have to agree that it used to be the media's job to present information neutrally so that people could think for themselves. But nowadays I don't belive this is true anymore. Now the media is simply an agent who's job is to convice as many people of one particular viewpoint as possible. I haven't watched TV in 3 years, and I don't really miss it.

[ghosty]

I had to stop by here and see what you guys had to say about this!

Here's my two-cents:

I've had nothing but contempt for Mel Gibson ever since I had to sit through the excruciating film "What Women Want" on an even more excruciating date. It was a soul-killing experience that I'll never forget.

I think the more severe aspect of the story is that he was driving drunk. Maybe we've gotten so blase about potentially paralyzing or killing someone or even wiping out whole families, I don't know, but he's an asshole for doing that alone. He's old enough to know better.

Is he a racist or an anti-semite? Who knows? Maybe. He's twice the asshole then if he is. Luckily he has absolutely no sway or influence over me so I'll just go back to not thinking about him when this is all over.[;)]

His career will suffer for only as long as the public cares about the story (which will probably be until about next month). Then he'll go on Oprah..he'll be charming..he'll well up with tears..women will squeal and then he'll make the "feel good comedy hit of the summer" and no one will care anymore.

Hell, Marlon Brando and Jesse Jackson made WAY more incendiary comments about Jews and it seemed like everyone was upset about it for all of five minutes. Think about the rapturous standing ovation Brando recieved posthumously after that "march of the those who have recently died" film segment they do every year at the Oscars. Did'nt seem like anyone was holding a grudge to me.

I have to confess that I'm a HUGE Brando fan and while it was dissapointing to hear what he had to say on certain topics (even his potshots at Elvis pissed me off!) it did'nt affect my enjoyment of "On The Waterfront". Gibson, on the other hand, does'nt have the luxury of decent movies to win me over.

There are bigger fish to fry than this aging pretty boy anyway.

Hope everyone is doing well and not suffocating in this heatwave.

Back to work.[8D]

[Frau_Blucher]

I thought Abraham Foxman, director of the ADL, also had a very level-headed commentary in today's New York Post:

"Apology is accepted - for now"
http://www.nypost.com/commentary/apolog ... foxman.htm