Attack/Acceptance thread - get it over with here

[kimiiii]

I'm sorry that you view it that way, Blir. I'm telling the truth when I say that I had NO idea it would blow up THIS horribly. I just wanted to contain the negative comments and personal lies to this thread, instead of having them follow me into every single post I make on other threads. But, so far, that hasn't been the case.

I would never do this to another person. I don't want it done to me.

Please notice that I'm not being inflammatory at all in any of my responses. I haven't defended myself by upping the rude ante and saying horrid things about anyone who has said negative things about me, in this thread or any other. Hopefully that tells you a little something about my NOT wanting this to blow up into a dramafest.

Besides, Blir, you and I both know the source of the majority of the lies. And the off-board communications between you and I have always been truthful. I do appreciate your candid responses but you're wrong in thinking that this firestorm is all my fault. If it wasn't for the lies and half-truths spread by agreed-upon source, this thread wouldn't have been necessary. The thread deletion was disruptive (admittedly) but the character assassination was self-serving by that person as well as unwarranted. Having said that, I feel no need to get into a public fray with him nor to eviscerate him for his part in this mess. I just want it to be finished.

Now, let's just move on, okay? I don't like this attention and I don't want it. I want to just be able to post, without the personal attacks, without the threats of having my sins exposed, and without ever being forgiven for my past mistakes.

I would do it for anyone else. And, I'm quite tired of explaining this whole thing.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Spaz[/i]


I will stand up for her rights to be here no matter how many disagree.



SPAZ
Born of innocence. Free of ignorance.
[/quote]

If she has a right to be here, then by that same token, people surely have the right to vent about her return. She started this thread with that intent, and it has been spectacularly successful. Whether it ends here or not is up to the board membership.

My opinion, very poorly handled, again. Off board communications would have been a much better way to resolve this. Kimiiii must have had a hint of what was to come when she made a brief appearance a short time ago, and some veiled, and not so veiled comments were made.



<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/eight.gif"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/number6.gif">

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by kimiiii[/i]

I would never do this to another person. I don't want it done to me.

[/quote]

Well, at least we finally found a limit to what you'll do. Amazing. I guess this hasn't been so unproductive after all. [:X]


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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [76%] 52 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [24%] 16 votes

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by kimiiii[/i]
<br> I do appreciate your candid responses but you're wrong in thinking that this firestorm is all my fault.
[/quote]
Let's be clear, that was never said. I said this was played very badly, particularly this thread. And when I said "No one gives a shit if you come or you go or you come back", that applied to the comers and goers as well as the gleeful harpees...er, harpers. I guess I should have said that ideally no one "should" give any particularly special shit. It's obnoxious and so freaking high school.

As to what I know...I honestly don't know what I know. I've read and heard a lot of shit in the past on emails, hub chats, and forum posts, likely packed with rumors and agendas. I've always said that no matter what I hear, I won't make a judgement on anybody based on that, positive or negative...I'm not that stupid.

[Grunch]

I will never understand why people take all this so personally. Think about it. Whatever went down, did it honestly derail your career, your family, your relationships with non-internet friends, your personal life, and you are not possibly able to recover and move on? Does thrashing someone actually make you feel better about it? Why not just accept she is back, not trying to stir trouble, and leave it at that. I just fail to understand how something as totally fucking (pardon the language, but it fits here) inconsequential as an internet chat board can cause and bring out such human animosity toward someone, and it seems you feed on it.

Whatever happened in the past, why can't it be left alone. I did not read Kim's return post as something hoping to stir the pot, I think she simply knew there would be those that would take their shots and show what they are made of, so she simply asked/hoped the animosity and could maybe be confined to one section. I guess she gave people too much credit to be able to handle it.

I've never realized just how on the attack some people are after others, deserving or not. It doens't say much about character, in my opinion. If I've offended anyone, I apologize, but I simply am amazed at the length people will go to show their hatred over a chat room - let's face it, that is all it is, a simple chat room called NWO. I don't think anyone deserves such hatred spewed on this site.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

I guess that's just because you're better than some of us Grunch. Fine. Congratulations. It doesn't bother me in the least if you feel that way.

Nobody's spewing hatred. Not me at least. I haven't even come close to hatred nor do I care enough to. I hope it never gets to that point. I am only saying about 1/100th of what I could say. To more than one person on here. That's probably a good thing for everyone involved.

The only thing I'll ask everyone to consider is that we've seen a lot of "I have no idea what happened but" posts. These are always followed by support for her. But you NEVER see a "I know what happened" post with anything close to support for her. Doesn't that clue you in? Probably not but it was worth a try.

And lastly, it's being done in a "chat room" because that's all we've got. If the opportunity were here to do it face to face that would be even better. But unfortunately, it's not.

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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [75%] 52 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [25%] 17 votes

[Grunch]

I have certainly faced situations with people, face to face, in my life, much much worse than anything that could ever be dished out via a chat room. And we resolved them as adults, and moved on. There was no name calling, polling to get rid of anyone, and to this day hashing up their past. No I do not know or care what happened, but that is not the point. I was a member of the biard like everyone else. And if something that occurred on NWO impacted this many lives to that degree, that gives this site way too much importance in life. Anyone can say what they will about me, but at the end of the day, it really adds up to nothing. I am conversing with complete strangers electronically, and clearly we are as diverse a group as it gets. The polarized groups exist, and it takes far less than a rocket scientist to see where the people fall. If you treat people this way here, it only stands to reason it is probably how you would treat people in general.

To err is human................wait, this is NWO, what was I thinking.

To forgive is..........well, blasphemy to many.

[marie3]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>First - Marie - I apologize for quoting you out of context in the other thread.
I've been thinking about this - especially after Marie's post and I think my impartiality is beginning to look ridiculous.

I've never really had a bad thing to say about kim simply because I didn't get to know her as others did. Like others though, I'm left wondering why in the world you would want to come back here.

I know what happened to you was bad, and for the other people involved. That's your own business - even if it did get dragged out here & became public knowledge.

What bothers me more than anything is the aftermath of those actions which affected a lot of people on these boards & whatever relationships they had. We lost more than a few people because of this. There was a monsterous attitude shift & I don't think the boards have really recovered from it yet. For quite some time people felt entitled to say whatever nasty shit they wanted, it brought out the trolls, and ultimatly, I think a few people no longer felt safe here & I'm really sorry to see some of them gone. The deletion of threads hurt people, opened a much bigger can of worms, and you just can't erase people's words without facing some sort of consequences.

I don't think it's a good time to come back. Personally, I don't want to revist it, I don't want to see the hostilities come back as a full time thing. The fallout isn't worth it. And I wonder why you'd want to put yourself through it & why we would need to deal with it again.

I think plagiarism's post says an awful lot about how things changed.
[/quote]

This post by Wolverine says it all in my opinion.

Since this is only a chat room, and really doesn't have too much importance in real life, what makes it so urgent to come back here at all?

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Grunch[/i]
<br>I have certainly faced situations with people, face to face, in my life, much much worse than anything that could ever be dished out via a chat room. And we resolved them as adults, and moved on. There was no name calling, polling to get rid of anyone, and to this day hashing up their past. No I do not know or care what happened, but that is not the point. I was a member of the biard like everyone else. And if something that occurred on NWO impacted this many lives to that degree, that gives this site way too much importance in life. Anyone can say what they will about me, but at the end of the day, it really adds up to nothing. I am conversing with complete strangers electronically, and clearly we are as diverse a group as it gets. The polarized groups exist, and it takes far less than a rocket scientist to see where the people fall. If you treat people this way here, it only stands to reason it is probably how you would treat people in general.

To err is human................wait, this is NWO, what was I thinking.

To forgive is..........well, blasphemy to many.
[/quote]

Nopthing personal Grunch and what you say is all well and good. I can understand people not caring what happened BUT if you don't know what happened, just don't treat her like a victim. To do so is only speaking from a position of ignorance. You're smarter than that. She is far from a victim of anything but her own stupidity and poor judgement and it's an insult to everyone who has ever truthfully been a victim. There are actually people out there worthy of being defended. THAT is my main problem with tje whole situation. By playing the victim card, she trivializes the very real suffering some people have had to endure.

And yes, I treat people the same way in real life. The way they deserve to be treated. And I forgive that which is forgivable. Just as I may not be up to your standards in the niceness department, others may not be up to mine in other areas. Maybe I just expect people to have a little pride, a little sense, and a little fucking accountability. So sue me. Stop judging me for being judgemental of thr single most judgemental person to ever grace this board. If you handle a poisonous weed like it's a delicate flower, sooner or later you're going to end up with a rash. I have the right to refuse.




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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [77%] 57 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [23%] 17 votes

[kimiiii]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>

Since this is only a chat room, and really doesn't have too much importance in real life, what makes it so urgent to come back here at all?
[/quote]

Marie, when did I even attempt to make it sound "urgent" ??? I just wanted to post about whatever subject I felt like. I did so - making no "urgent" overtones and look what happened.

The urgency seems to be on the side of those who THINK they know anything about my personal life and feel a need to make a very negative public statement about it.

It's only a chat room - it doesn't have too much importance in real life - so let me come back without all of the drama created by those who would fight it.

[Grunch]

I don't treat anyone as a victim.

I also think to blatantly bash, and post statistics about how many want her to just leave, etc......is not in the best interest of this board. I for one just believe everyone, I mean EVERYONE, deserves a chance. Sure would be a lot of written off people in life if we chose to write them off because we just cannot live with what they've done. Anyone who is a parent must have, or perhaps one day will, have ample opportunity to exercise human dignity in dealing with their children. What a great exercise in dealing with people in general. I'd have been sent to hell a hundred times over by friends and family over my lifetime had they not the grace to consider me human and capable of mistakes, and allowed me the dignity to foster relationships with them again. I guess that's my problem, I've been around one too many people that thought me worth salvaging. I am by far nowhere near perfect, and am thankful to be surrounded by others tolerant of my shortcomings. I am thankful for that.

I am not trying to judge anyone here. I just will never understand the need to be so vicious toward anyone. I respect your right and choice to do so, but just can't comprehend the nature to do it.

[marie3]

If it's not important then why this thread? Then why come back? Can't you just call and email people?
You keep on talking about the true story, why do you even have any story? This is a MUSIC FORUM. I don't have a story and neither does anyone else here.
So now it's okay for you to post on whatever subject you feel like after so many of our posts are long gone? Like I said, I just don't get it. I do know some of your story, and it did involved people from this board. Some of us are actually friends now. We have met each other. This is screwed up.

This is really hard for me to be so blunt. Many of you know me and I have never been so outspoken. I just respect this forum and I don't like the direction it may go in.

[kimiiii]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]

Nopthing personal Grunch and what you say is all well and good. I can understand people not caring what happened BUT if you don't know what happened, just don't treat her like a victim. To do so is only speaking from a position of ignorance. You're smarter than that. She is far from a victim of anything but her own stupidity and poor judgement and it's an insult to everyone who has ever truthfully been a victim. There are actually people out there worthy of being defended. THAT is my main problem with tje whole situation. By playing the victim card, she trivializes the very real suffering some people have had to endure. [/quote] <p>

Goodness, gracias, Motors, you do love throwing the V word around. Please refresh all of our memories as to when I ever "played the victim card." The only time I was a victim is when someone made a very crude tshirt about me, posted it on Ebay, and then linked it on NWO. I didn't deserve that. At all.

[quote]And yes, I treat people the same way in real life. The way they deserve to be treated. And I forgive that which is forgivable. Just as I may not be up to your standards in the niceness department, others may not be up to mine in other areas. Maybe I just expect people to have a little pride, a little sense, and a little fucking accountability. So sue me. Stop judging me for being judgemental of thr single most judgemental person to ever grace this board.[/quote]

Now to take the wind out of Motors repetitive stance of me not taking any accountablity:

I made mistakes, both on the board and off. I have paid dearly. I WAS WRONG. When the tshirt happened, I realized that too much personal stuff was on NWO and I had made a mistake by posting those things. I asked Mike P to delete my posts. Unfortunately, a by-product of that was that the threads I started were entirely wiped out. Did I know that would happen? No. I had no control over that aspect of this board's setup. I AM SORRY THAT IT HAPPENED. Looking back, I wish that I had just edited/deleted my own posts, one at a time. Lots of great pictures, fun threads, and unique interactions were wiped out.

As for whether that will happen again (Hutter's oft-repeated fear), it won't. I will not request it, and, believe me, I KNOW that Mike P would not do it anyway. Case closed.

[quote]If you handle a poisonous weed like it's a delicate flower, sooner or later you're going to end up with a rash. I have the right to refuse.[/quote]

I know you don't like me, Motors. Everyone knows that. You've made that clear. So leave me alone now. Let me post without the snide comments and constant anger, please. I don't understand why I'm the focus of your NWO life but it's time to move on now. I haven't struck back at you and I would appreciate some civility now.

[hutter]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Grunch[/i]
<br>

I also think to blatantly bash, and post statistics about how many want her to just leave, etc......is not in the best interest of this board. [/quote]
Hey, it was Kimiiiii's idea to post a poll. I was just going through the door she opened. Whether you like it or not, a lot of folks here have a legitemate concern. I ask, once again...where is our guarantee that what happened before won't happen again?

No one has answered that. And Kimiiii's poll idea isn't working out to her satisfaction. Oh well.

________________________________________________
For videos and tunes from yesteryear, take yer butt over to:
http://nealsnow.multiply.com/

[kimiiii]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>If it's not important then why this thread? Then why come back? Can't you just call and email people?
You keep on talking about the true story, why do you even have any story? This is a MUSIC FORUM. I don't have a story and neither does anyone else here.
So now it's okay for you to post on whatever subject you feel like after so many of our posts are long gone? Like I said, I just don't get it. I do know some of your story, and it did involved people from this board. Some of us are actually friends now. We have met each other. This is screwed up.
[/quote]

Marie -

Again -

this thread is to let people say what they want and leave the personal attacks out of the other threads when I post. I thought I made that clear. Grunch understands it. It's pretty simple. I didn't come on here with any urgency and I would appreciate your urgency of NOT wanting me on here to die off. I just want to post, like you do.

As for the true story angle - it wasn't me that brought this whole thing up. I'm glad that you have met the other party involved - I'm sure that his story was very slanted in his favor. Just keep that in mind.