[quote][i]Originally posted by rewind[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by aquarius[/i]
<br>Strange that "New Toy" is not included anywhere in the box sets at all.
[/quote]
That's an unbelievable omission. Where can you find the track listings?
[/quote]
Regarding the absence of the track "New Toy" from a Facebook post:
"There are rights issues concerning "New Toy", namely Thomas Dolby's publishers demanding upfront payment of mechanical royalties. Lene didn't want it on Vol.1 anyway, I think she has other plans for it. She isn't down on the song in any way, in fact it recently crept into the live set."
The Others disc is apparently the first in a series. A 12" compilation or 2 would be fantastic.
Track list: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
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Lene Lovich - 2013 Remasters box set !
by pinkyblue82 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:38 pm
Got my email confirmation this morning! Let me know if you got yours, Scott.
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by RevUp64 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:31 pm
All boxes to the UK have shipped and those to the rest of the world are trickling out.
Meanwhile, the original '78 Stiff version of Stateless will be available soon. Though LL doesn't like it, she's making it available to fans that do. I have to admit that I like the more subdued mix of the album as an alternative to the final, official one, and am happy to have both.
Someone's posted the whole thing to youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEVJaiNZIA
Meanwhile, the original '78 Stiff version of Stateless will be available soon. Though LL doesn't like it, she's making it available to fans that do. I have to admit that I like the more subdued mix of the album as an alternative to the final, official one, and am happy to have both.
Someone's posted the whole thing to youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEVJaiNZIA
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by Rubellan » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:50 am
I just got my box set and am horrified. Here's what I wrote on the Lene Facebook page, which will likely be taken down:
Scott Davies I just got my box set and I have to express my concerns. First and foremost, the music on the CD's are NOT full spectrum .wav files. They are compressed MP3 files, meaning there is loads of audio data missing. How did this happen? Next, the CD's are NOT factory pressed CD's. They are CD-R's! I don't recall any mention of this anywhere. And checking the sound on one CD so far, it's definitely been brick walled. Also, though this is said to be a limited edition of 100, there is nothing on the packaging indicating it, such as a number of which copy I have. The booklet is very nice but I wouldn't have minded something on the outer box indicating what it is for display purposes. Many of us have waited many, many months for this to arrive so I am disappointed. I could forgive many of the shortcomings, but MP3's on the CD's is unacceptable.
Scott Davies Upon further investigation, it appears FLEX is entirely from MP3 sources. STATELESS and NO MAN'S LAND are not. However, the brick walling on NO MAN'S LAND is some of the worst I've ever seen! The extras CD is a combination of MP3's and .wav. This is all very inconsistent and unfortunate.
Scott Davies I just got my box set and I have to express my concerns. First and foremost, the music on the CD's are NOT full spectrum .wav files. They are compressed MP3 files, meaning there is loads of audio data missing. How did this happen? Next, the CD's are NOT factory pressed CD's. They are CD-R's! I don't recall any mention of this anywhere. And checking the sound on one CD so far, it's definitely been brick walled. Also, though this is said to be a limited edition of 100, there is nothing on the packaging indicating it, such as a number of which copy I have. The booklet is very nice but I wouldn't have minded something on the outer box indicating what it is for display purposes. Many of us have waited many, many months for this to arrive so I am disappointed. I could forgive many of the shortcomings, but MP3's on the CD's is unacceptable.
Scott Davies Upon further investigation, it appears FLEX is entirely from MP3 sources. STATELESS and NO MAN'S LAND are not. However, the brick walling on NO MAN'S LAND is some of the worst I've ever seen! The extras CD is a combination of MP3's and .wav. This is all very inconsistent and unfortunate.
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by omar » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:05 am
I'm glad I didn't get the boxset . I guess all the forthcoming individual cds are to be avoided as well. Lene is sabotaging her own career by pulling this shit. If it's cheaper to use cd-rs and a crappy remastering job then go for it ! And soon all your hardcore fans would be no more.
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by anfunny2003 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:39 am
It was a blessing in disguise to miss out then. CD-Rs? mp3s? You've all be ripped off. Return them.
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by Rubellan » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:13 am
For those of you who haven't checked the Lene Facebook page:
LENE LOVICH BAND I am concerned by what you say about the source files, as we were supplied only with 24bit WAV files which we were assured were from the requested analogue sources, with a couple of exceptions where DATs had to be used. The final masters from which the discs are made are all 1411kbps 16bit WAV files, not an MP3 in sight, so I am very curious as to where you are getting your information. Lene herself approved the masters, and to our ears the sound quality is vastly superior, certainly to all previous digital versions of the releases. If by "brick walled" you mean compression used at the remastering stage, yes we used compression, that's how it's done. We've had a great deal of compliments about the sound quality. The CDs are studio-grade BenQ Nano discs, identical to the ones used to make many Red Book standard masters in the CD manufacturing process. We used duplicated discs in order to enable us to offer fans something genuinely exclusive. It would never be financially viable to manufacture just 100 units of any CD. 500 is normally the minimum a manufacturer can produce of any single title. The costs of manufacturing the discs alone would exceed the income from the total sales of the boxsets. When you factor in the costs of licensing, remastering, printing, packaging and postage, it becomes financially prohibitive to even attempt such a project. It didn't occur to us that you'd want a numbered box. I guess we didn't think of everything.
SCOTT DAVIES: There have been a lot of recent issues in which CD's are manufactured from what was at one time in the transfer process an MP3 file. This has happened many times with Warner Bros, and most recently there was a huge uproar about the Robert Palmer reissues on the Edsel label because they all had MP3 compression. That's not to say what you received from the license holder was an MP3, though at one point in the transfer someone foolishly compressed it to MP3 and then converted it back to a .wav file, but it was too late because the data was lost. Here is a screen grab of 'Bird Song'. You can clearly see the compression and loss at the top of the spectrum:
<a href="http://s76.photobucket.com/user/rubellan/media/birdsong-2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/rubellan/birdsong-2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo birdsong-2.jpg"/></a>
And as far as the volume compression I’m referring to, you and I exchanged some emails months ago regarding this concern. You stated it would be loud but nothing that would compare to those that people find too harsh. You can have loud volume without this level of compression. Check out Edsel’s recent Bananarama reissues. Absolutely stunning. Here’s a screen grab from ‘Blue Hotel’. You can see that there’s virtually no dynamics or detail left. It’s just a harsh bit of loudness, and, I’m sorry, some of the worst I’ve seen/heard.
<a href="http://s76.photobucket.com/user/rubellan/media/bluehotel-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/rubellan/bluehotel-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo bluehotel-1.jpg"/></a>
And having done professional mastering myself, I know one of the first things to always check is the .wav file in the spectral view of an audio program, as I do in Adobe Audition. That way you can see immediately if there’s been any data compression during any stage of the transfer. Then you make the licenser correct their mistake and provide full, uncompressed data files. As it stands, these are substandard.
Regarding these being CD-R’s, I would have been more than happy to have paid twice as much for the product to have had them not only full spectrum files and not brick walled to death, but also to have had them on factory pressed CD’s. At the very least, there should have been some mention of this because CD-R’s have a limited shelf life, and these may not even be playable in 5-10 years.
LENE LOVICH BAND Hi Scott. As I think I pointed out to you before, the audio compression was an artistic choice approved by Lene, and was a question of dynamics rather than volume. It is a misnomer to suggest that dynamic range means better sound, in fact in most audio engineering the opposite is true, and sounds are compressed at many stages, from the mic all the way to the master. The sum of the compression on No Man's Land is still, sonically at least, less than anything I can think of recorded by The Who in the 60s. I personally don't subscribe to the mythology that analogue is necessarily better. Equally, I think it is essential to do the job with your ears and not your eyes. If what you wind up with sounds great, it really doesn't matter if it looks like the Empire State Building on it's side. I am no expert on data loss, and indeed when I learned the trade at Abbey Road ten years ago spectrum analysis was actively discouraged for precisely the reason that we can only work with what we've got, not what we haven't got. I have every confidence that the files we were delivered were the best available. We could have ripped CDs as a shortcut but chose not to. I'm sorry if you don't like the results, but we're very happy with them, so the proof's in the pudding, as they say. I can't find anything to prefer about the earlier CD releases. As for people who consider themselves to be audiophiles, it is strange that they should be listening to digital versions of the albums at all. I'm looking forward to the vinyl. With so many versions to choose from surely everyone should be simply dotty with happiness.
SCOTT DAVIES: I’m very surprised by this backward mentality. It’s all over forums the world over that dynamic music is superior. Anyone can take a CD mastered in the 80’s and apply an additional 7 DB of compression, then reduce the volume 7 DB to bring it back to the volume that it was, then they hear the total difference. All the punch of the dynamics is GONE. You can clearly hear the loss when doing this simple comparison. And you think it’s better? Did Lene make her decision with your “expert” advice? She’s a woman in her 60’s who may know what she wanted from the original mix of an album, but it’s rare that an artist truly understands the pitfalls of dynamic squashing for the sake of trendy modern mastering. And when they are aware they do not let it happen. See Thomas Dolby or the Alan Wilder supervised Depeche Mode reissues. Full dynamic range and stunning sound because the artists knew what NOT to let happen. The backlash on brick walled music has been going for years.
And so you’re defending the use of MP3 compression as the best available source? No, it’s not. A previously issued CD without either variation of compression is a better source over data compression because someone during the transfer clicked the incorrect ‘save as’ file format.
As I’ve mulled this box set over throughout the day, I find it appalling on so many levels and would like to have a refund or at least a partial refund because I’m not about to spend any more time and money to package this debacle up and send it back to the UK. You mis-advertised this product by not mentioning the use of CD-R’s, and there are at least two other forums that I frequent in which people are stating they will be asking for their money back or that they are now happy they missed out on this “limited edition”. I knew something was up when people started getting their box set and there was very little feedback on it. Well, now there’s lots of feedback.
LENE LOVICH BAND I am concerned by what you say about the source files, as we were supplied only with 24bit WAV files which we were assured were from the requested analogue sources, with a couple of exceptions where DATs had to be used. The final masters from which the discs are made are all 1411kbps 16bit WAV files, not an MP3 in sight, so I am very curious as to where you are getting your information. Lene herself approved the masters, and to our ears the sound quality is vastly superior, certainly to all previous digital versions of the releases. If by "brick walled" you mean compression used at the remastering stage, yes we used compression, that's how it's done. We've had a great deal of compliments about the sound quality. The CDs are studio-grade BenQ Nano discs, identical to the ones used to make many Red Book standard masters in the CD manufacturing process. We used duplicated discs in order to enable us to offer fans something genuinely exclusive. It would never be financially viable to manufacture just 100 units of any CD. 500 is normally the minimum a manufacturer can produce of any single title. The costs of manufacturing the discs alone would exceed the income from the total sales of the boxsets. When you factor in the costs of licensing, remastering, printing, packaging and postage, it becomes financially prohibitive to even attempt such a project. It didn't occur to us that you'd want a numbered box. I guess we didn't think of everything.
SCOTT DAVIES: There have been a lot of recent issues in which CD's are manufactured from what was at one time in the transfer process an MP3 file. This has happened many times with Warner Bros, and most recently there was a huge uproar about the Robert Palmer reissues on the Edsel label because they all had MP3 compression. That's not to say what you received from the license holder was an MP3, though at one point in the transfer someone foolishly compressed it to MP3 and then converted it back to a .wav file, but it was too late because the data was lost. Here is a screen grab of 'Bird Song'. You can clearly see the compression and loss at the top of the spectrum:
<a href="http://s76.photobucket.com/user/rubellan/media/birdsong-2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/rubellan/birdsong-2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo birdsong-2.jpg"/></a>
And as far as the volume compression I’m referring to, you and I exchanged some emails months ago regarding this concern. You stated it would be loud but nothing that would compare to those that people find too harsh. You can have loud volume without this level of compression. Check out Edsel’s recent Bananarama reissues. Absolutely stunning. Here’s a screen grab from ‘Blue Hotel’. You can see that there’s virtually no dynamics or detail left. It’s just a harsh bit of loudness, and, I’m sorry, some of the worst I’ve seen/heard.
<a href="http://s76.photobucket.com/user/rubellan/media/bluehotel-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/rubellan/bluehotel-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo bluehotel-1.jpg"/></a>
And having done professional mastering myself, I know one of the first things to always check is the .wav file in the spectral view of an audio program, as I do in Adobe Audition. That way you can see immediately if there’s been any data compression during any stage of the transfer. Then you make the licenser correct their mistake and provide full, uncompressed data files. As it stands, these are substandard.
Regarding these being CD-R’s, I would have been more than happy to have paid twice as much for the product to have had them not only full spectrum files and not brick walled to death, but also to have had them on factory pressed CD’s. At the very least, there should have been some mention of this because CD-R’s have a limited shelf life, and these may not even be playable in 5-10 years.
LENE LOVICH BAND Hi Scott. As I think I pointed out to you before, the audio compression was an artistic choice approved by Lene, and was a question of dynamics rather than volume. It is a misnomer to suggest that dynamic range means better sound, in fact in most audio engineering the opposite is true, and sounds are compressed at many stages, from the mic all the way to the master. The sum of the compression on No Man's Land is still, sonically at least, less than anything I can think of recorded by The Who in the 60s. I personally don't subscribe to the mythology that analogue is necessarily better. Equally, I think it is essential to do the job with your ears and not your eyes. If what you wind up with sounds great, it really doesn't matter if it looks like the Empire State Building on it's side. I am no expert on data loss, and indeed when I learned the trade at Abbey Road ten years ago spectrum analysis was actively discouraged for precisely the reason that we can only work with what we've got, not what we haven't got. I have every confidence that the files we were delivered were the best available. We could have ripped CDs as a shortcut but chose not to. I'm sorry if you don't like the results, but we're very happy with them, so the proof's in the pudding, as they say. I can't find anything to prefer about the earlier CD releases. As for people who consider themselves to be audiophiles, it is strange that they should be listening to digital versions of the albums at all. I'm looking forward to the vinyl. With so many versions to choose from surely everyone should be simply dotty with happiness.
SCOTT DAVIES: I’m very surprised by this backward mentality. It’s all over forums the world over that dynamic music is superior. Anyone can take a CD mastered in the 80’s and apply an additional 7 DB of compression, then reduce the volume 7 DB to bring it back to the volume that it was, then they hear the total difference. All the punch of the dynamics is GONE. You can clearly hear the loss when doing this simple comparison. And you think it’s better? Did Lene make her decision with your “expert” advice? She’s a woman in her 60’s who may know what she wanted from the original mix of an album, but it’s rare that an artist truly understands the pitfalls of dynamic squashing for the sake of trendy modern mastering. And when they are aware they do not let it happen. See Thomas Dolby or the Alan Wilder supervised Depeche Mode reissues. Full dynamic range and stunning sound because the artists knew what NOT to let happen. The backlash on brick walled music has been going for years.
And so you’re defending the use of MP3 compression as the best available source? No, it’s not. A previously issued CD without either variation of compression is a better source over data compression because someone during the transfer clicked the incorrect ‘save as’ file format.
As I’ve mulled this box set over throughout the day, I find it appalling on so many levels and would like to have a refund or at least a partial refund because I’m not about to spend any more time and money to package this debacle up and send it back to the UK. You mis-advertised this product by not mentioning the use of CD-R’s, and there are at least two other forums that I frequent in which people are stating they will be asking for their money back or that they are now happy they missed out on this “limited edition”. I knew something was up when people started getting their box set and there was very little feedback on it. Well, now there’s lots of feedback.
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by Rubellan » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:54 am
They have now deleted the entire thread from Facebook. I have emailed demanding a refund. I will not let this slide. This box set was a 4 month wait and a tremendously misleading disappointment.
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by pinkyblue82 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:37 am
I'm happy to say that I have finally received my refund. This is all extremely disappointing as I have been anxiously awaiting this item for four months now. The fact that these brilliantly remastered CD's were going to be CD-R's should have been stated from the get go. I feel really bad for Lene herself as I'm sure she will be faced with serious fan backlash after this botched mess. I don't think she'll be seeing much revenue from the upcoming back catalog reissue plan. Perhaps she'll be making an official statement regarding what's taken place in the last 24 hours. I would love to hear what she has to say about all of this.
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by BigManRestless » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:18 pm
Still not had my second edition of this box, but it looks like it is going straight back when it arrives. All the hype with this 'from the master tapes for the first time' 'supervised by Lene' and they use crappy CDRs and MP3s?
Sod it - I've emailed them asking to cancel and refund my order. What a farce.
Sod it - I've emailed them asking to cancel and refund my order. What a farce.
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by elviscaprice » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:29 am
Wow, I can't believe they could try and pass off this mess after all the hoopla and revised release date. Crazy!
Just goes to show you can't trust any release now a days until credible folks give reviews.
[8D] Elvis
Just goes to show you can't trust any release now a days until credible folks give reviews.
[8D] Elvis
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