New Wave Outpost Forum

by **Sean** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:46 am

I often wonder how sales for the independent label reissues are? Say for instance, Pseudo Echo's "Autumnal Park" by Almancantar. Has it sold over 1,000 pieces? Others come to mind are the Superfacta releases for A Flock of Seagulls & The Thompson Twins and the releases by One Way and Oglio. Will they or have they reach 5,000 in sales?

by **Jason²** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:39 am

I guess I might have a few answers here...

Believe it or not there's not one specific accurate number - the best you can get is Soundscan, though Superfecta is paid by it's distributor based on shipments (sales to retailers) rather than retail sell-though to customers.

As of right now - using ONLY Soundscan numbers - Superfecta's sales to date on every title released are:

Del Amitri - Del Amitri - 1,789
Cabaret Voltaire - TOSOS (Best Of) - 1,821
Flesh For Lulu - Long Live... - 2,333
OST - Bachelor Party - 623
New Model Army - Great Expectations (Best Of) - 1,594
Concrete Blonde - Concrete Blonde - 2,502
Concrete Blonde - Free - 2,555
AFOS - Listen - 1,531
Thompson Twins - QS&SK - 1,273

Now, obviously sales are higher than those numbers - as they don't take into account any export sales or sales from retailers we sell direct to (i.e. The Ideal Copy, eBay, GEMM, etc.) - but as you can see - despite what we think is a pretty sweet catalog - NOTHING has sold particularly well despite the fact we have RYKO (now RED) as a distributor. Add to that the fact that for most of those releases we've had to guarantee to EMI that we'd purchase/manufacture 5,000 units of each - over 3 years - and that term is up in June - to be blunt - we're kind of fucked.

Not hard to figure out why so few 3rd parties pursue licensed reissues.

This would be why we never did get those B-Movie and Colour Field reissues out.. just can't afford to release something we KNOW we'll lose money on.

Just FYI - Soundscan numbers for the Almancanter releases are not available which leads me to believe that their CDs are not available at retailers that support SoundScan..

So, anyone wanna buy the Bachelor Party Soundtrack...cheap?

by **NuWaveRx** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:48 am

Wow. And I would have thought from that list AFOS and the Thompson Twins would have sold the best. In any case that is very disappointing. Jason do you think it's just general lack of interest in the Universe at large to bands such as these or is it that hard-core fans have digitized their vinyl copies of this stuff? I've bought a number of items from The Ideal Copy--Looks like I'll have to explain to my wife that I need more reissue stuff.

by **Barmy** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:34 pm

Does anyone seriously think downloading doesn't have a MASSIVE negative impact on sales? Not just digitizing of LPs, but the ready availability of the CD tracks once the CD comes out.

by **fritzb** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:25 am

That's a real shame these reissues aren't selling better. [:(]

The Superfecta reissues in particular are truly everything a fan would want from a reissue - great sound quality, informative liner notes, and a fine choice of bonus material. I couldn't be happier with the titles I have bought. In fact, with this sad news, I am definitely going to add a few more titles to my want list - things I was kinda on the fence about getting. If my past experience is a guide, I am sure I will be pleasantly surprised, even by artists and titles I not really familiar with.

I already had a copy of the original OOP CD of the Thompson Twins <I>Side Kicks[/i], but I have to say the reissue sounds so much better! It's fantastic! [8D]

In all honesty I only bought the <I>Bachelor Party[/i] soundtrack for the rare Oingo Boingo cuts, but I have to say I love the rest of the songs as well. There are no real hits on this record, but it's a great collection of rare quirky New Wave tunes - the kind of songs that really made New Wave fun! I would urge all my fellow NWOers to pick up a copy of this budget-priced gem if they haven't already! You won't be disappointed! [:D]

And no, Jason² didn't pay me to say any of this. I really meant it. [:p]

by **fanciz** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:29 am

I'm not surprised that Thompson Twins didn't fare very well. First it's not a very exciting band, then what are the best tracks of the album? Namely: Love On Your side, Lies, We Are detective. Now, those tracks appear already in the following albums: Best Of The Thompson Twins, Platinum, Greatest Mixes, Singles Collection etc. In my case, I already own the last two albums, so why should I buy Quick Step and Side Kick? Just to get the same tracks? I know that some diehard fans will object to my view but unfortunately that's the way it is.
On the other hand, Superfecta released a very good album: Flesh For Lulu, Long Live The New Flesh. This album includes at least 4 Mega Hits:
1. I Go Crazy
2. Postcards From Paradise, regular & extended versions
3. Siamese Twist, regular & extended versions
4. Sooner Or Later
Therefore, it's not surprising that FFL's sales exceeded Thompson Twins' sales by 2 to to one.

In conclusion, Superfecta should be more aggressive in marketing its releases abroad. In Manila, a lot of dudes are very much interested in FFL.

by **Jason²** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:43 am

Hard to pinpoint one specific reason why sales aren't higher but I can certainly share my thoughts...

1. Disinterest. The age of the fan of these titles is now in the over 30 range (for the most part) and most former music lovers have grown into passive music enjoyers. By that I mean a greatest hits collection serves the nostalgic purpose that they need and a reissue of an original album with bonus tracks isn't as appealing as a 15 track collection of all the known songs.

2. Downloading - though I don't think it hurts Superfecta as much as it does other labels. Superfecta was designed to be a collector's label - we intentionally do everything we can to make each release a "coffee table" edition. Most of our releases are reissues of single albums so the passive music fan (which tends to be the downloaders) aren't THAT interested in the original albums. The only title that I think suffered from download competition is the Flesh For Lulu one. People want(ed) "I Go Crazy" and "Postcards From Paradise" and had downloading not been an option I believe that title would have sold better. The others were probably effected but not terribly significantly.

3. marketing budget - we only have so much money to spend advertising this stuff - and placing ads in magazines is expensive. Part of the reason we built The Ideal Copy is we couldn't find ANY resource that catered to the alterntive '80s - be it print, online or retail. So for us to reach a mass audience we'd have to advertise in Blender or Spin or one of those publications that costs stupid money to get any real visibility. So there are plenty of potential customers out there who don't know that these CDs exist

4. The shrinking brick & mortar business. Whether you blame downloading or apathy or the economy or whatever - the fact that there are fewer retail outlets to buy music effects Superfecta. Moreover, because we're not reissuing "hit" titles we don't get carried by the major chain retailers (trans world, musicland, best buy, wal mart, target, etc.) SOME of those carry SOME of our releases, but by and large the fact that stores carry fewer titles means ours are stocked less and less

5. Licensing restrictions. When we licensed from EMI or BMG we had to agree that our titles could ONLY be distributed in the USA. As a result we have NO distribution outside the US - sure - the online retailers can ship overseas and there are exporters but Superfecta can't, for example, go to Pinnacle in the UK for distribution - we are reliant on the exporters and the overseas shippers to serve the customers located outside the USA.

There are other factors as well, but those are the ones that come to mind.

by **MARV** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:44 am

Wow, that sucks Jason. I do forward your newsletters to friends who I hope help your business. I can't believe the reissues don't do better! You'd think they'd be in every Virgin Megastore in the country. I go to the ones in Times Square and Union Square here in NYC and they always have a whole display of classic eighties releases so WTF? I think it's time to visit the Ideal Copy and spend some more $ again [;)]

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

by **fanciz** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:08 am

Thanx for the info, Jason but I will add this... I'm over 30, and I don't consider myself as a passive music enjoyer. Every year I buy hundreds of CD's and if it were not for the difficulty of importing those albums, I would probably purchase more CD's. A true collector is not interested in mp3 or CD-R's, he wants the real thing and I can assure you that a lot of my friends share my opinion. Yes we have downloaded fron N... and K....but only the tracks not available on CD's. This being said, you should be more discriminating when deciding to release an album. May be U should consider the real demand and not the few emails that you received from diehard fans who will never make up the number for a reissue to be succesful.A look at Amazon selling rates could be interesting. The album Virgins & Philistines, Colourfield sells for $260, a new release is announced for 2011?????? Other albums in demand: Viva, X'Mal Deutschland, every time this album is offered on ebay, which happens rarely, lots of collectors are fighting for it. I was able to get my copy because of a huge bid placed at the last moment eheheh. Also, The Wild Swans, Bring Home The Ashes; The Adventures, Theodore and Friends; Lover Speaks, s/t etc, etc
Regarding your limitations regarding the sales abroad, I don't know but may be you could assist your retailers in getting connected with the foreign importers... Well it's just an idea.[;)]

by **Spectre General** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:19 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Jason²[/i]
<br>So, anyone wanna buy the Bachelor Party Soundtrack...cheap?
[/quote]

Yes, forgive my ignorance but where can I get it? I might also get that Thompson Twins and Flesh For Lulu as well.

by **fritzb** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:53 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Spectre General[/i]
Yes, forgive my ignorance but where can I get it? I might also get that Thompson Twins and Flesh For Lulu as well.[/quote]You can get them online at <a href="http://idealcopy.american-data.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=IC" target="blank">The Ideal Copy</a>. Lots of other cool stuff there too! [;)]

by **Jason²** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:12 am

Just so everyone knows, I didn't post in this thread as a vehicle for self-promotion or for anything like that. I just thought it would be interesting to know the facts.

As far as how we've decided which titles to release, believe me, we've spent HOURS (if not days) going through eBay, amazon, goldmine, gatefold, etc.

The Flesh For Lulu and A Flock Of Seagulls titles were going for ridiculous money on collector sites. We didn't decide on what to release based on emails - ever. Believe, me, if we did we'd have all kinds of oddball releases - and yes - we've spent a lot of time looking at most of the titles that have been suggested. We actually tried to get "Bringing Home The Ashes" from The Wild Swans - but at the time it wasn't available - but to be honest - even if it was I can assure you that the demand is minimal despite the collector prices. Another title we came close to releasing was "Jerky Versions Of The Dream" from Howard Devoto. Have a look at what that goes for on eBay and you'd think that if we reissued it we'd make a mint - but I can guarantee you that despite the 3 figure bids there's probably about 500 people in the world who would buy that title if it was available -FAR under the 5,000 number we'd have to guarantee.

The sad reality is - the more obscure and rare a title is - the higher it gets bid up on eBay - but if that obscure and rare title suddenly became available the demand would plummet - particularly when compared to what one would have to pay for the license.

by **Jason²** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:14 am

Oh, one more thing...

That 2011 release of Virgins & Phillistines from The Colour Field is the Superfecta release. We HAVE the license - we have even remastered it and have advance CDs - we just haven't gone through with releasing it because we know that we'll lose money.

However, if anyone reading this feels particularly strongly about this - and has the $$ to back it up - I'm happy to have an investor help get this title out.

by **Frau_Blucher** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:27 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Jason²[/i]
<br>Just so everyone knows, I didn't post in this thread as a vehicle for self-promotion or for anything like that. I just thought it would be interesting to know the facts.
[/quote]
We know Jason. But even if you did, you've got plenty of cred equity to ever have to worry about it...IMHO of course.

by **obs** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:37 pm

[i]4. The shrinking brick & mortar business.[/i]

Totally agree with this. The Virgin Megastore in town closed earlier this year and the other popular music stores here suffer from a shrinking selection of titles. When they do carry cool titles, quite often it's at a higher price than what I can get it for online so I just order it online instead.

[i]A true collector is not interested in mp3 or CD-R's[/i]

There's that "true" word again [:)] ...

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