Castro, 79, Goes In For Surgery...

[phillyidol]

Agreed. Lets let the monster die before we start planning the rule of his country. Just a thought, there is no drink called an american imperialist but there is one called a cuba libre. Por que?

[hutter]

[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
<br>You guys really believe Cuba will be better off with American control? Do the people of Cuba get to say anything about it or do they just get Wal Mart jammed down their throats? Suppose they voted and choose Russia as their "assistant" or decided to go it alone. I got to agree with OP here. Myself I would take Fidel over Bush any day if only because the old fart is going to kick of soon and Bush has already lived too long.
[/quote]
You'd get a kick out of America being under communist rulership, would'nt you? [:(!]

[djcraig]

[quote]Originally posted by marvymarv
Man, I would love to visit Cuba. I hear it's beautiful. My cousin who lives in Amsterdam actually honeymooned there and showed me such beautiful photos of the country.
[/quote]

My understanding is that It can be easily done, Marv. You need to go to a third party, Cuba friendly country first. This a great excuse to go to Cancun, Mexico. From there you can cruise to Cuba and back.

PS If you somehow get caught in some diplomatic turmoil, I will disavow any knowledge of this conversation!

<a href= http://

<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/">DJ Craig</a>

[djcraig]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Opera Prima[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>I'm tempted to say that anything is better than the Communist dictatorial regime of Castro
[/quote]

Oh yes, the dictatorial regimes of Pinochet, Videla, Somoza, etc, etc, supported by the US were much better.

And in which part of the island would you prefer to be: Communist dictatorial Cuba or "free" Guantanamo concentration camp... it must be very funny to be locked in a cage and tortured for three years without knowing the reasons why you are a prisoner and having no rights at all.
[/quote]

Yeah but you do get this cool,[b] Club Gitmo[/b] T-shirt!

<img src="http://liberatus.kaywa.ch/files/images/2005/7/mob12_1121719473.jpg">

<a href= http://

<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/">DJ Craig</a>

[phillyidol]

LOL!

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Opera Prima[/i]

Do you think all Cubans will be happy when their island becomes another capitalist country?[/quote]

How do you know Cuba will become another capitalist country? Why are you being so alarmist? Or are you a fortune teller?

[quote]Don't you know the US is the western country with more homeless and poor people?[/quote]

Well the U.S. has pretty much more of everything so I could live that, if it's true. It's all relative. It also happens to be the one country in the world where it's easiest to make something out of your life, no matter where you start from on the socio/economic ladder.

[quote]Oh yes, the dictatorial regimes of Pinochet, Videla, Somoza, etc, etc, supported by the US were much better.[/quote]

I don't really care to discuss any countries other than Cuba...at least not here. Feel free to start another thread if you want. Care to stay on topic?

[quote]And in which part of the island would you prefer to be: Communist dictatorial Cuba or "free" Guantanamo concentration camp... it must be very funny to be locked in a cage and tortured for three years without knowing the reasons why you are a prisoner and having no rights at all.[/quote]

I'd prefer to stay on the part of the island that's had assistance moving to a democracy by a coalition of foreign democratic governments, if that's the way it indeed pans out. Hell if the U.S. does it alone, I'd go anyway.

Now can someone please tell Opera to lighten up? Sheesh, all I said was that the island is beautiful and that I'd love to go there. Fucking hell. Say hi to Stella for me in Koo-Koo Land.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[phillyidol]

I have so much to say but I am holding back.

[MikeP]

Wow ... I find it amusing that everyone is ganging up on the one non-American here for their **gasp** possibly-not-100%-pro-USA perspective. Personally, I enjoy hearing other viewpoints even if I don't entirely agree with them. I know we can do better than a bunch of half-jest jingoistic retorts.[;)] Face it folks, one thing us Americans have in spades is ignorance and arrogance. That being said: adios Castro ... you SOB![xx(]

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<
Well the U.S. has pretty much more of everything so I could live that, if it's true. It's all relative. It also happens to be the one country in the world where it's easiest to make something out of your life, no matter where you start from on the socio/economic ladder.

[/quote]

Well said Marv. We had this discussion in a thread a while back, but the bottom line is free market capitalism with minimal govermental interference has time and again shown to be the strongest and most viable economic system yet devised. Don't believe it? Where would you rather live: a completely socialized nation like India or a pre-China Hong Kong. With similar population densities, Hong Kong has far fewer people per captia in "poverty" than India. As far as Americans in poverty, I've said previously that I would far rather be "poor" in the U.S. than say, India, or Cuba, or the Congo. There "poor" really is poor. Here a major problem with people of ALL socioeconomic levels is obesity. Don't hear too much about the obesity problem in the countries above.

On a final note, if the socioeconomic climate is the worst in the U.S. why aren't people in Miami risking their lives to swim to Havana?

All that being said, here's looking forward to having a Cuban see-gar hoepfully soon.[:D]

[Opera Prima]

Hey guys, the only thing I want is Cuba going through a transition proccess toward democracy without foreing interferences trying to get benefit from the situation.
Honestly, I don't think your government wants to help in this proccess just for help's sake, but because they'd love to see a pro-US government in the island, I'm sure they won't be happy if there are free elections and the communist party is elected.
I understand you see communism as the worst thing ever, because it's the opposed to your capitalism and that you somehow feel (at least that what I've read in some of your school and high-school history books) that your country has the task to help the needed and the opressed in other countries, so your government must act now in Cuba.

I think foreing interference in most cases just makes things worse, and in many cases it's just not needed. Countries and societies should be let follow their own path as much as possible, go their own way without trying to impose foreing ideas, systems, religions, etc.
I'm just saying this because I wouldn't like to see in Cuba another chapter of Operation Condor, that caused so many deaths and destroyed so many Centre and South American societies. Though you've probably been tought since you were very little that communism is horrible, I think you'll agree with me in this: a democracy ruled by a left-wing party or a communist party that has been legally chosen by the majority of the people in a free democratic election is better than a right-wing bloody and oppresive dictatorship... sadly your government preferred the latter.

It would be great if the US government really wanted to help other countries that certainly need it and put an end to all the dictatorial oppressive regimes that exist nowadays in the world, but reality is that the US only moves by interest (as most countries, of course) and while it supports some regimes, it's completely against others. Your government supported and sold lots of weapons to Sadam Hussein or to the Talibans when it helped your interests, and when it didn't they suddenly changed from good and reliable allies to the worst dictator and the biggest terrorists ever respectively.

I have nothing against any of you or your country, I just like US policy as little as you probaly like those guys that sunk Enron and left with all the money.

MikeP and all the others: probably our points of view are so different, sometimes opposed because the History we studied was completely different, and the news we hear or watch everyday are not the same either. And if people who live in the same country have a variety of viewpoints, how could we always agree if we're from different continents and cultures?

Phillyidol: I'm sorry if I didn't get your sarcasm in the "catsup" sentence [:)], but as I said in another thread I was asked and told such stupid and ridiculous things when I visited your country, that sometimes (specially if you don't use emoticons) I'm not sure if people here are joking or really mean what they say.
And about the Inquisition: it first started in the Middle Ages in Southern France, and was later created in Spain, Portugal, Rome,... and something equivalent existed in most European countries... so I'm afraid it wasn't something exclusive of Spain.

NuWaveRx and marvymarv: Yes, free market capitalism is the the strongest and most viable economic system for western countries, because it's greatly based on stealing riches and resources from 3rd world countries and using their cheap handwork (many times almost as if these people were slaves) to manufacture products, etc., making all these countries even poorer.
And about obesity, I think it has more to do with what you eat and your lifestyle than with how much you eat... I haven't seen many obese Japanese, and I'm sure they don't starve. And it's the same in Europe, though obesity will be a problem soon if people keep on eating so much jank food and rubbish.

[Opera Prima]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
How do you know Cuba will become another capitalist country? Why are you being so alarmist? Or are you a fortune teller?
[/quote]

No, sadly I'm not a fortune teller so I can not foresee the future (otherwise now I would be a millioner since I would have won the lottery), but knowing a bit of history and how people and things are in other countries and using the brain can give you and idea of what is going to happen in certain occasions.
For example, when our stupid former president Aznar supported the war on Iraq and sent Spanish troops there against almost all Spaniards will, I knew there were many possibilities that a terrorist attack took place here... and it happened, nearly 200 people killed in the trains blasts in Madrid (and I'm sure most of those people were among the 93% of the Spanish population that opposed the war).
And last year, when I was living in London, few days after Blair was elected again I talked to a British and told him I was worried because the same thing that happened in Madrid was going to happen in London and he just smiled and said they were safe there and that their secret police protected them (as if we didn't have secret police here in Spain, but there are things which are almost impossible to stop)... and I think you know what happened some months afterwards.

And nowadays situation in Iraq was also quite predictable...

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Opera Prima[/i]
<br>
For example, when our stupid former president Aznar supported the war on Iraq and sent Spanish troops there against almost all Spaniards will, I knew there were many possibilities that a terrorist attack took place here... and it happened, nearly 200 people killed in the trains blasts in Madrid (and I'm sure most of those people were among the 93% of the Spanish population that opposed the war).
[/quote]
Well you guys did the only thing you could. You folded faster than you can say "Mi casa es su casa" and changed your government at the will of terrorists. Good job. Très Français.

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by MikeP[/i]
<br>Wow ... I find it amusing that everyone is ganging up on the one non-American here for their **gasp** possibly-not-100%-pro-USA perspective. Personally, I enjoy hearing other viewpoints even if I don't entirely agree with them. I know we can do better than a bunch of half-jest jingoistic retorts.[;)] Face it folks, one thing us Americans have in spades is ignorance and arrogance. That being said: adios Castro ... you SOB![xx(]
[/quote]
This is a crock. The guy wants to jump in with both feet with blanket judgments and shouldn't expect "half-jest jingoistic retorts"?! I see the comments as responding in kind with tongues perhaps a bit planted in cheek. I'm anti-war too but nothing will circle the wagons faster than spew, even amongst otherwise dissenting voices. And "Americans" have the lock on ignorance and arrogance? Please, it's the human disease and the major symptom is thinking only others have it.

[MARV]

Everybody, this round's on me.....and Opera Prima, you have a double [:D]

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<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[hutter]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by MikeP[/i]
<br>Wow ... I find it amusing that everyone is ganging up on the one non-American here for their **gasp** possibly-not-100%-pro-USA perspective. Personally, I enjoy hearing other viewpoints even if I don't entirely agree with them. I know we can do better than a bunch of half-jest jingoistic retorts.[;)] Face it folks, one thing us Americans have in spades is ignorance and arrogance. That being said: adios Castro ... you SOB![xx(]
[/quote]
This is a crock. The guy wants to jump in with both feet with blanket judgments and shouldn't expect "half-jest jingoistic retorts"?! I see the comments as responding in kind with tongues perhaps a bit planted in cheek. I'm anti-war too but nothing will circle the wagons faster than spew, even amongst otherwise dissenting voices. And "Americans" have the lock on ignorance and arrogance? Please, it's the human disease and the major symptom is thinking only others have it.
[/quote]
Thank you Blir!